Weather
Heavy police presence for Harrow Central Mosque protest (From Harrow Times)
Get involved: send your pictures, video, news & views by texting Harrow Times to 80360, or email us
Heavy police presence for Harrow Central Mosque protest
9:43am Wednesday 12th August 2009
THOUSANDS are expected to descend on Harrow for a Bank Holiday protest against the borough's new mosque.
Demonstrators recruited through the internet are taking to the streets outside Harrow Central Mosque, saying they oppose plans for a Sharia Law court in the new building.
The protest, throughout the day on Saturday, August 29, has been advertised on right-wing websites and organisers are expecting at least a couple of thousand to join in.
There are fears the protest could turn nasty, after a similar demonstration in Birmingham last weekend descended into a pitched battle between police, protesters, and Islamic groups.
However, Bill Baker, one of the organisers of the protest, said ties had been cut with groups English Defence League and Casual United, who he blamed for the trouble in Birmingham.
He told the Harrow Times marshalls would be escorting protesters from Harrow and Wealdstone station to the mosque, in Station Road, and would be on the look-out for trouble-makers.
He said: “We all live under one set of rules and that's what we expect from Muslims as well.
“Why can't they just decide whether they live in this country under our laws or move to a country that uses Sharia law?”
He added: “I am loyal to my country and I don't believe racist extremism of any kind should hijack this issue.”
Protesters have been recruited through a vast array of internet sites and Facebook group, with messages like: “The planned Islam centre is not only a mosque but a five-storey building containing education centre for new converts to Islam and also sharia law courtrooms. This must be stopped so please come along to our passive protest and bring your friends with you. Don’t forget to bring some banners and your St George’s cross flags.”
Harrow police found out about the protest via the internet, and have been holding high-level meetings with mosque leaders, senior police chiefs, and Harrow Council.
They are planning to be out in force during the protest to avoid a repeat of the ugly scenes in Birmingham.
In a statement put out ahead of the demonstration, the police said: “We recognise people's right to protest and we will ensure that there are sufficient police resources deployed on Harrow borough to facilitate any legitimate protest.”
Councillor Susan Hall, deputy leader of the council, said: "One of our main priorities is to build stronger communities and those who wish to use Harrow as a stage to try and drive a wedge into that community and ferment division - whether they are religious extremists or political fanatics - do not represent what Harrow is about.
"Nonetheless, we respect the right to demonstrate and we are confident our police partners will ensure this event, if it takes place, will go ahead without causing fear or intimidation to any of our residents."
More News stories
- Young leaders present Scouting For Girls with special award
- Brent alleyway enjoys summer spring clean
- Talent show dancer set to wow the crowds
- Medic chops his locks for charity
- Owners urged to muzzle dogs after attack on child
- Flytippers caught on camera
- Call for quality and innovation in future design of Harrow
- Councillor 'saddened' by Pakistani air crash
- Wrestling champion on the comeback trail
- Fight begins to save Harrow Magistrates Court
Your Say YourHarrow
SeaBee, Pinner says...
8:45pm Wed 12 Aug 09
SuperStudent18, Harrow says...
11:39pm Wed 12 Aug 09
I don't think a separate court on such issues is a way to bring communities together, it would only perhaps serve to alienate and cause further division between communities. In terms of a court relating to the arbitration process, I am all for it.
I do hope the anti-mosque protests pass without any clashes or problems, however.
OpenMindedThinker, says...
9:52am Thu 13 Aug 09
How many people protesting have actually gone to an Islamic scholar and quizzed him about the details of Shari'ah law instead of carrying on with the high and might 'Defence of Britain' charge, pumped up by far right rhetoric in origin?
Most of them aren't interested in thinking this much - how about being a bit more educated in your approach? Maybe they can do the sensible thing first and ask for a community debate on this issue WITH your Muslim neighbours present instead of acting like it's the Inquisition and jumping barmy over an extension.
SuperStudent18, Harrow says...
12:54pm Thu 13 Aug 09
OpenMindedThinker, says...
6:26pm Thu 13 Aug 09
Nonetheless, people react very strongly when the minority build up hysteria, and this is exactly what the protesters will, knowingy or unknowingly, be taking part in.
Reason it through first and talk with us, the Muslim community, instead of feeling embarassed or improper about it. Protest after you know all sides of the argument, otherwise you are only fanning the flames of suspicion and hatred.
SuperStudent18, Harrow says...
6:38pm Thu 13 Aug 09
However, when I read your statement: "Racism is deeply rooted in British society. Every native child is born with a gene or virus of racism..." I felt compelled to reply.
I must tell you as an Asian Muslim who went to a state school, that this statement is utter rubbish.
British people are generally the most tolerant and forbearing in not only Europe, but the world.
The attitudes of the majority of British people are to be commended, in terms of their views on multiculturalism, and their celebration - on the most part- of this is brilliant.
Some native indigenous vote for the BNP. Indeed those that do, or have done recently, I beleive voted for them as a protest vote, but more than that - as a way of venting their frustration at the current system. They are not inherently racist.
I honestly believe that the majority of British people will accept any person into this country, of any race, colour or creed - as long as they are law-abiding, tax-paying citizens.
As long as we don't bother them - we shouldn't be bothered ourselves. Lets mix with them, celebrate our differences and accept that in many MANY ways - we owe them more than they owe us. It's time to give as well as take, my Muslim brothers and sisters. We, as well as immigrants from areas such as Africa and the West Indies may have brought a slice of our culture - be it music or art or food, but we have also been given a tremendous amount of support to flourish.
Where else would we find free healthcare, free education and warm, generally welcoming people such as the Brits? Forget our differences, lets celebrate what we have in common first.
Davidz, Middlesex says...
10:05am Fri 14 Aug 09
We need both hands to clap properly.
SeaBee, Pinner says...
12:19am Sat 15 Aug 09
Getting back to the point however, as I understand it, Shari'ah Law is all encompassing, based on The Holy Koran/Quran and adherents have no need for any man made laws. This of course is inimical with the legal system in modern democracies. Laws are predominantly man made (as opposed to being spelled out in a religious tome) and are often at variance with the religious tracts. To have universal acceptance of Shari'ah law in parallel with man made law is a recipe for disaster. For example acceptance, or not, of homosexuality, of extra-marital sexual relations, whose law would have precedence? Shari'ah punishment would result in imprisonment for the punishers under state law. As I stated in my original letter, I have no problem with Shari'ah or Talmudic arbitration provided that there is no coercion, but that is the limit of my acceptance. I'm not sure from your letter where you stand on the scale of no Shari'ah to complete Shari'ah By the way, don't be sorry about being a practising Muslim, I'm a devout atheist and am completely without sorrow.
jackdaw, Harrow says...
3:35pm Sat 15 Aug 09
If everyone decides they will pick and chose the laws to obey there will be chaos!
We cannot choose which laws we will obey because otherwise a burglar could say it is against his wishes to comply with laws against theft.
Enoch Powell, Hertfordshire says...
4:14pm Sat 15 Aug 09
Richard_at_Harrow, Harrow says...
8:16pm Sat 15 Aug 09
Seabee – you know what happened to Rome? – They let the barbarians live with them. Constantine brought Christianity to Europe. Now a more peaceful, merciful and tolerant religion looks set to dominate Europe. I have converted. Oh yes – its true. I have a compass and prayer mat (actually the compass is part of the mat) and I pray 6 times a day (sometimes its 7 cos I’ve lost count – but I figure it will go down well with the boss for those days when I can’t manage 6). My religion is a shining beacon of hospitality and goodwill and shows what is possible with a great religion behind you (and in front).
I welcome Religious Courts. – Afterall we won’t have to wait for MP’s or the existing agencies to enforce the law. I want to know when we can also resume stoning (I’ve got some particularly sharp stones saved up), amputations and public flogging ( I also have some whips).
Brothers – I’ll be back – as it is time I washed for prayers and I mustn’t keep the boss waiting. God is great. PBOU my brothers (and sisters).
Bill Baker, Essex says...
11:00pm Sat 15 Aug 09
This is not a protest against Islam as a religion but against Shariah law being applied to the muslim community in disregard of our statutory laws as passed by our government. We have several faiths and cultures in this country that all abide by these principals and a secondary legal system for the muslims would not only be against all our values of democracy, but would open up a whole new agenda for any religous group who wish to govern themselves and ignore the laws of the land, where would we be then I wonder? If this becomes acceptable for one religous group in the country then why not for all of the various religions in this country. A two tier political system is unnacceptable and if all the other faiths in this country have to abide by the law of the land then so should the muslim community. No matter how trivial they say it is and what matters this law relates to, it should go through the due processes and be heard in our courts that are run by the state judicial system. The Sikh and Hindu community in the Harrow area have been consulted concerning this issue and are in total agreement with the principal of our protest and have also voiced their concerns of how the government is pandering to the Muslims in this country, disregarding the fact that it is creating interfaith tentions and is setting intergration back in terms of decades. Allowing Shariah Law to proceed in this country would only fuel extremists on both sides of the political barrier.
One Law for all, it is as simple as that and those wishing to live under Shariah law may do so elsewhere, but not in Great Britain.
Bill Baker, Essex says...
11:50pm Sat 15 Aug 09
Dear Mr Baker,
I am writing on behalf of David Cameron to thank you for your recent e-mail.
We have made our position clear on Sharia courts – they can be given no authority over criminal and family law matters in Britain. Our law must reign supreme, and the next Conservative government will make sure it does.
We believe that the introduction of Sharia law, would only act to undermine society, particularly at a time when more, not less, integration is needed. The big challenges facing the country are how we end state multiculturalism, enhance cohesion, promote opportunity and build a stronger society.
Thank you, once again, for writing to David.
Lets wait and see but I dont pin any hopes on the conservatives at all as they are also pandering for votes in the coming elections
SeaBee, Pinner says...
6:04pm Sun 16 Aug 09
Richard _at_Harrow, Is your comment ironical? As my teachers would have written, MTH.
Bill Baker, Essex. Mr Baker if you have a problem in Essex, then sort it out there. We in Harrow do not, I believe, have a problem. I'm not enamored by the design of the mosque but that has more to do with the architecture than its contents. But, it is there and it is better than what was there before. With regard to Sari'ah law, I think that you will find that it is a 'fait accompli'. Whether you like it or not, Shari'ah law is extant in the Muslim community. Accepting its use in arbitration means that it is subsumed in UK law. Denying its use means that we will have a community with parallel unofficial laws. Your call, but I know where I stand.
Habib, Harrow says...
6:18pm Sun 16 Aug 09
SeaBee, Pinner says...
6:50pm Sun 16 Aug 09
Bill Baker, Essex says...
8:28pm Sun 16 Aug 09
I have no problem with mulsims having mosques to pray and worship god in whatever aspect they view god in, as it is their right to have religous freedom to worshipas they please, but they have got to decide whether Islam is a poltical organisation or a religion as it cannot be both and is unnacceptable to the vast majority of us, no matter what part of the country Shariah law rears itself in the community. The building is an afront to our soveriegnty and should not be allowed without guarantees that no Shariah court rooms are included or it is used for any other political or militant activity other than religous or community gatherings. You may be willing to accept shariah law as part of our legal system but the majority will not in anyway accept this. Should this be allowed it will only give credibility to extremists and make more people consider voting for politcal parties that promise to resolve these issues, but are also a threat to the intergration of our communities, divinding bigger wedges between our many cultures and faiths in this country than those wedges that already exist.
SuperStudent18, Harrow says...
8:59pm Sun 16 Aug 09
Enoch Powell, Hertfordshire says...
9:27pm Sun 16 Aug 09
Habib, Harrow says...
11:02pm Sun 16 Aug 09
.
SuperStudent18, Harrow says...
11:21pm Sun 16 Aug 09
Enoch Powell, Hertfordshire says...
11:29pm Sun 16 Aug 09
Bill Baker, Essex says...
12:54pm Mon 17 Aug 09
Enoch Powell, Hertfordshire says...
1:30pm Mon 17 Aug 09
Bill Baker, Essex says...
3:22pm Mon 17 Aug 09
Bill Baker, Essex says...
3:33pm Mon 17 Aug 09
http://www.islam4uk.
com
Our aim is simple: Izhaar ud Deen (Domination of Al-Islam worldwide).
Subsequently, living in Britain we target to convince the British public about the superiority of Islam and expose the fallacies of man-made law, thereby changing public opinion in favour of Islam in order to transfer the authority and power (from those with authority and power) to the Muslims in order to implement the Sharee’ah (here in Britain).
00961 7095 7759 Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad phone number
what more proof is needed,then, perhaps the following?
http://www.muslimpar
liament.org.uk
Enoch Powell, Hertfordshire says...
5:43pm Mon 17 Aug 09
SuperStudent18, Harrow says...
6:21pm Mon 17 Aug 09
g" are not fair representations of the views of the majority of Muslims in this country.
These law-abiding tax-paying Muslims feel that even the Muslim Council of Britain, which is seen as moderate does not even represent the Muslims.
You speak of the majority of Brits not too keen on the implementation of Shariah Law in the UK. To dissect this even further, I am quite sure that even asking Muslims in this country if they want the brutal Wahhabist Shariah Law of Saudi Arabia implemented here, they would answer with a resounding NO.
Nobody wants this extreme interpretation of Islam, the only form of Shariah Law even remotely acceptable would be that regarding simple legal arbitration between Muslims only. Anything more than that requires the pooling of opinion of Muslims in the UK before anyone else, and thereafter a hierarchy and criteria to implement further 'laws'.
SeaBee, Pinner says...
7:20pm Mon 17 Aug 09
Unplanned mass imm (I've just reread my first sentence)
SeaBee, Pinner says...
7:35pm Mon 17 Aug 09
We will then have the Bhuddist concept of one hand clapping or to misquote an old headline 'Massive earthquake in Peru, no Britons injured'
Those who oppose the new mosque are a little late and if we ignore them they will be denied the phlogiston (look it up lame brains) of publicity
Peace, Salaam. Shalom,(alphabetical order) to you all
Bill Baker, Essex says...
7:37pm Mon 17 Aug 09
One law, for all of us whether it is for commercial, domestic or criminal purposes, then we all know where we stand and are treated equals in the community.
Enoch Powell, Hertfordshire says...
9:40pm Mon 17 Aug 09
Enoch Powell, Hertfordshire says...
9:47pm Mon 17 Aug 09
SuperStudent18, Harrow says...
10:07pm Mon 17 Aug 09
Is this solely an attack on Muslims or are you going to protest outside their courts also?
And Bill Baker, you are COMPLETELY missing the point, with respect.
Your example about a 'racist thug' and 'Asian magistrate' is made completely redundant in this case due to one simple fact. My earlier letter pertained to ARBITRATION in potential Sharia courts - between MUSLIMS AND MUSLIMS alone, who wish to handle their divorces and such things in an Islamic way, with both parties eager that this should be so.
There would be no biased sentencing, no racial subjugation, no miscarraiges of justice, and all parties would be content with the Islamic ruling, which they seeked in the first place. JUST AS, the Jewish couple who wish to divorce go to their Beth Din legally - without a fuss and without a mass demonstration on their doorstep, so too do the Muslims wish for the same right.
Enoch Powell, you say "we are not going to give an inch to another form of law.." but you already have!
As mentioned the Beth Din operate on their Jewish and Talmud legal framework. Or is that okay because they are not Muslim?
Enoch Powell, Hertfordshire says...
10:48pm Mon 17 Aug 09
SeaBee, Pinner says...
10:55pm Mon 17 Aug 09
Alternatively take your labour and that of the other immigrants elsewhere and Messrs. Powell and Baker can feast themselves on what remains of the UK's. resources. Mainly grass.
Enoch Powell, Hertfordshire says...
11:10pm Mon 17 Aug 09
tikismikis, London says...
1:34am Tue 18 Aug 09
SuperStudent18, Harrow says...
1:46am Tue 18 Aug 09
What disappoints me as a Muslim is that there is never official condemnation from a Muslim organisation of the acts such as in Luton.
Powell you must realise that the majority of moderate Muslims dissociate themselves from the extremists. We want nothing to do with them. For a proper debate on Sharia Courts you must first distinguise between orthodoxy in religion, and religious fundamentalism.
Perhaps Seabee was right. It does feel like I'm banging my head against a wall here.
Born_Pict, Edinburgh says...
3:06am Tue 18 Aug 09
1. Offensive, military jihad against non-Muslims is a communal, religious obligation;
2. A person who is ignorant about Islamic legal opinion must follow the legal opinion of a scholar;
3. The penalty for a Muslim apostate (someone who no longer believes in or no longer follows the tenets of Islam) is death;
4. When slaughtering animals for food, a knife must be used to cut the windpipe and gullet;
5. A woman is only eligible to receive half the inheritance of a man;
6. Marriage may be forced on virgins by their father or father’s father;
7. A non-Arab man may not marry an Arab woman;
8. A woman must seek permission from her husband to leave the house;
9. A Muslim man cannot marry a woman who is a Zoroastrian, an idol worshipper, an apostate from Islam or a woman with one parent who is Jewish or Christian, with the other being Zoroastrian; a Muslim woman cannot marry anyone but a Muslim;
10. A free Muslim man may marry up to four women;
11. Retaliation is obligatory in most cases when someone is deliberately murdered except when a Muslim kills a non-Muslim, a Jew or a Christian kills a Muslim apostate or a father or mother kill their offspring;
12. Non-Muslim subjects (Ahl al-Dhimma) of a Muslim state are subject to a series of discriminatory laws – “dhimmitude”;
13. The penalty for fornication or sodomy is being stoned to death;
14. The penalty for an initial theft is amputation of the right hand. Subsequent thefts are penalized by further amputations of feet and hand;
15. A non-Muslim cannot testify against a Muslim in court; a person who is “without respectability” cannot give legal testimony; a woman’s legal testimony is only given half the legal weight of a man’s (and is only acceptable in cases involving property); to legally prove fornication or sodomy requires 4 male witnesses who actually saw the act;
16. The establishment and continuation of the Islamic Caliphate (by force, if necessary) is a communal obligation;
17. Sodomites and Lesbians must be killed;
18. Laughing too much is forbidden;
19. Musical instruments are unlawful;
20. Creating pictures of animate life is forbidden;
21. Female circumcision, which includes the excision of the clitoris, is obligatory;
22. Slavery is permitted;
23. People may be bribed to convert to Islam;
24. Beating a rebellious wife is permissible; and,
25. Lying is permissible in a time of war (or jihad).
Bill Baker, Essex says...
10:58am Tue 18 Aug 09
I agree that it is only a minority of exteme muslims promoting the advances of Shariah Law and respect the reasoning that the majority of muslims are good people and want no part of extremism, but the apologists in government that are backing down constantly to these extremists and their demands, endanger not only the moderate muslim community into being dominated by these people but the whole of our society in general. A line needs to be drawn somewhere and Sharaih Law stopped in its tracks before it causes dissent and gives rise to radicals using this issue to further weaken the progress we have made so far in strengthening our intergrated cultures under one banner.
We want the moderate muslims who support our nation to stay here and contribute as they have done and welcome their cultural values as part of our diverse and great society and the majority of people despise the radicals who call for the expulsion of foriegners as the bigots they are. But those with extreme Islamic views who feel they cannot live under our man made laws but must be dominated by their religious values rather, should consider alternative places in the World to live.
Bill Baker, Essex says...
1:57pm Tue 18 Aug 09
Our protest against Shariah law group is not against anyone or seeking confrontation, we only wish to uphold the values of an intergrated community where all are respected as equals under one law.
SeaBee, Pinner says...
9:44pm Tue 18 Aug 09
We, in Harrow really don't have a problem with Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Christians, Seventh Day Adventists, Bhuddists, Druids, Mormons, whoops, nah, I'll still invite them in for a conversation, Sally Anne or any other Deitists
Thank you for your input and that of 'EnochPowell', I guess that any further comments can be found under ;'Harrow Central Mosque has no plans for Sharia Court meetings' Oh and Harrow Police, if the protest has indeed been cancelled, can we now expect a saving in overtime claims
leon gramsci, london says...
3:56pm Mon 24 Aug 09
Nazis in the 30's in Germany, Mosley in Britain in the 30's and now BNP and their mates today.
They are using this to spread their evil message of so-called racial purity.
Do not be fooled by them . A racist lie on top of another racist lie leads to death camps and the Holocaust.
Harrow rejects them and say go back into the sewer where you belong.
Bill Baker, Essex says...
5:50pm Tue 25 Aug 09
Bill Baker, Essex says...
5:50pm Tue 25 Aug 09
Your sayYour Harrow
Add your comment
Register for a FREE Harrow Times account and you can have your say on today's news and sport by adding comments on articles we publish. The best comments may even get published in the paper.
Please register now or sign in below to continue.
Local Advertisers
Local Information
Enter your postcode, town or place name
SeaBee, Pinner says...
4:17pm Wed 12 Aug 09