Officers attacked with bricks and bottles (From Harrow Times)
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Police attacked with bricks and bottles at mosque protest
10:23pm Friday 11th September 2009 in News
POLICE came under attack from bottles and bricks this evening in violent clashes outside Harrow Central Mosque.
Superintendent Julia Pendry of the Met Police said: "What police set out to do today was to police peaceful protests.
"Unfortunately what unfolded was a series of acts of disorder and even cases of violence. Officers came under attack from bricks and bottles and we had to deploy our staff in protective equipment a number of times.
"Police had to take fast time action to stop events from getting even worse this afternoon, by intervening to prevent an imminent breach of the peace. We had to act to stop things from escalating.
"It is completely unacceptable for people to use the excuse of protest to break the law and behave in this way. We've been told that the majority of people that gathered in Station Road today were not even part of the local community. Stewards worked hard to intervene and keep the crowds calm, helping to prevent further disorder. What played out on the streets of Harrow today is completely unacceptable to everyone."
A total of nine arrests where made for possession of offensive weapons. One arrest was made to prevent a breach of the peace, he was released as soon as police were confident that the threat had passed.
Police are maintaining a presence in the area this evening to reassure the local community.
Comments(101)
SeaBee
says...
11:23pm Fri 11 Sep 09
pricklypilgrim
says...
11:28pm Fri 11 Sep 09
One cannot blame "indigenous" Harrovians for feeling resentful, as some of my (non racist) friends do. This country has been welcoming to those of other races and cultures, but the powers-that-be in Harrow have allowed the development of an environment in which indigenous Brits are starting to look to the far right to speak up for their rights. That's the real tragedy.
James_Harrow
says...
11:45pm Fri 11 Sep 09
spmalkani
says...
1:01am Sat 12 Sep 09
SuperStudent18
says...
1:10am Sat 12 Sep 09
I condemn it in the most withering terms, and am embarrassed by the behaviour of such 'Muslims.'
I am thoroughly apologetic, on my own behalf, for being represented by such buffoons, as young teenage Muslims are seen to represented in such a light.
I pray that community relations remain intact after this, and that impartial onlookers, and perhaps even those reading this can discern that there remain a sizeable number of actually articulate teens who define themselves as 'Muslims'.
Indeed a victory for the far right as Seabee put it, but a defeat for us young Muslims who can anticipate the ramifications of this.
A sad day for Harrow, and a sad day for all decent-minded Muslims.
Unity1
says...
1:23am Sat 12 Sep 09
Cllr Jeremy Zeid
says...
3:08am Sat 12 Sep 09
spmalkani
says...
3:40am Sat 12 Sep 09
We will not allow a disgraceful and misguided lot of young fellows or demonstrators from any party to create ill-will between us.
It has taken years of blood,sweat and tears to make us all feel part and parcel of ONE large family---the community of Harrow.
Harrovians must show a generosity of spirit and rise above the appalling
occurences we witnessed yesterday,outside the Harrow Central mosque and bridge near the Civic Centre.
It is unthinkable that the Police who came to help maintain law and order sustained attacks with bottles,bricks and missiles---totally out of character with our locals.Outsiders tried to hi-jack the show.
Just beggars belief!However sad or ashamed the day's events have made many of us ,who have lived here peacefully and happily,for decades,we stand firmly against all those who seek to divide us.We shall not be beaten by a bunch of hooligans.It is a tough learning curve.
If anything,let us resolve to bond even more closely with all our communities and build stronger ties between the hugely diverse groups that Harrow is so proud of.
Harrovians thank the Met Police,our Council,all community leaders,politicians and citizens alike for their total committment and co-operation.Take heart.
These outsiders do not represent Harrow in any shape or form.Our young Muslims in Harrow need not feel afraid.They are a valuable part of our Harrow,our community.
I am sure,we are mature and sensible enough not to tar every Muslim with the same brush,just because some outsiders came uninvited to our home town and tried,in vain,to turn it topsy-turvy.
Lets get back to work,as usual,and show them the stuff we harrovians are made of.
dudlien123
says...
6:17am Sat 12 Sep 09
Bill Baker
says...
9:36am Sat 12 Sep 09
Cllr Jeremy Zeid
says...
10:13am Sat 12 Sep 09
You weren't there, I was. Easy to spout from the insulated comfort of your safe distance and keyboard.
Our Harrow, Our Community means that is is for us ALL. Anyone who doesn't like that, TOUGH!! Like or not we are where we are. What would YOU suggest as of NOW and not some mythical past idyll?
Cllr Jeremy Zeid
says...
10:20am Sat 12 Sep 09
Unlike so many "experts", I was actually there. It was a bloody disgrace and as I said before, incinvenient as it may be to those of that mindset, the biggest problem was the LEFT WING, UAF. The agitators of that Union should be ASHAMED.
Also, whe n it wa srealise dwhat a damp-squib it was with so few EDL turning out, Unite and others should have realise the total futility and GONE HOME.
Sorry, the EDL should not have been there. The violence is EXCLUSIVELY, down to the UAF and Islamic extremists and hatemongers that came from elsewhere.
So before another loon starts spouting and unless you were there, you have no real perspective.
Cllr Jeremy Zeid
says...
11:10am Sat 12 Sep 09
The UAF and other radicals whipped up the mob with slogans and rumours.
The cowardly left-wing and religious fascists were determined to have their vainglorious "battle" whilst prompting from a position of safety at the back.
It was actually a non-protest, but the loons and agitators didn't want to go away empty-handed without making "their point" whatever that was.
I DESPISE THEM.
The mosque were fantastic in controlling and guiding their own congregation and also came to my aid when the anything but "peaceful" and MASKED white thug from the UAF, tried to attack me (before I removed his mask).
If "Unite" is a Union, devoted to "unity" then it has FAILED and in it nasty divisive wake should be prosecuted under the Trades Descriptions Act.
To the "Muslim" radicals, you brought shame to the religion and are hated by your co-religionists.
As for the barrack-room lawyers, distant commentators, armchair generals and miscellaneous "experts", you really had to be there, and you weren't..
dudlien123
says...
11:14am Sat 12 Sep 09
I need to clarify the term "Islamic extremist" As you probably allready know Islam is totaly against violence. Anyone who says the contrary is misinformed. Therefore a fundamentalist/extre
mist is a person who strives and gives his utmost to become the best in a particular field. I am a muslim and I suppose you could say an extremist, as Islam encourages us to be extreme in everything good. Therefore I and hopefully other muslims are extremely just, extremely caring, extremely loving. For example a real muslim is someone who submits totaly to his Creator God. A muslim prioritises worship above all things. Thats what a true muslim should be. Now if God tells us not to be violent, the person being violent is actually not a muslim but a non believer/non-muslim. Why are we still using the term "Islamic"??? For example the man accused of killing the most humans in qty. +-6million people was a christian, known as Hitler. We have never used the term Christian extremist to describe him and the nazis, did we. And Godwilling no muslim shall ever use it as hopefully God has blessed the real muslims with enuogh knowledge and sensibility as most of his creation, ie mankind. Please as a gesture of good will be the 1st one to abolish this unjust usage of a term that taints a beautiful religion that only incites peace.
dudlien123
says...
11:36am Sat 12 Sep 09
jackdaw
says...
11:55am Sat 12 Sep 09
Obviously yesterday's protesters had not signed up to keeping Harrow tidy.
I suspect they are all having a lie in after the riot.
Fiza
says...
12:07pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Cllr Jeremy Zeid
says...
12:14pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Those who came from outside perporting to be Muslim, had nothing on common with the my friends and neighbours here in Harrow.
This is not the fault of Islam, but that of those who subvert and radicalize it for their own ends.
Yes, I have read the iffy bits, but that was then and as far as Harrow is concerned is not for now. It would be nice if the radicals and militants could just grow up. There us something inadequate in people who would sow the seeds of discord and hatred for some !cause" that is usually a reflection of their own ignorance.
One vociferous "radical" convert, it's always a convert, tried to stir it up and was asked to leave. No-one wanted him there.
As far I am concerned, we are all fellow neighbours. As I said on a previous article, there is the right to free speech and protest, but I don't have to welcome those agitators.
As for jackdaw's comments.. Quite right, our cleansing staff have done a superb job looking after our environment, the Civic Centre security team, likewise Kier who boarded up vulnerable buildings against likely violence.
joshisthebest4
says...
12:16pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Fiza
says...
12:17pm Sat 12 Sep 09
dudlien123
says...
12:30pm Sat 12 Sep 09
SBE
says...
12:36pm Sat 12 Sep 09
pam syria
says...
12:41pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Harrow sounds like its struggling against odds to give a good life to all its citizens ho matter what colour or creed . Good for you Harrow , hopefully the yobs will stay clear next time and leave you all in peace.
Heather Davies
says...
1:02pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Cllr Jeremy Zeid wrote:Cllr Jeremy Zeid; your aggression is obvious - calm down! The only "thugs" I saw yesterday were from within the Muslim cult, I didn't see any other creed or colour misbehave, did you Cllr Zeid?
Yes Heather Davies, it IS Our Harrow, as in ALL of us. It does not belong to the fascists (Left and Right),the extremists, idiot "nationalists" and the thugs.. Besides, YOU are in Wales with the same type of militant "nationalists", so how do you know? You weren't there, I was. Easy to spout from the insulated comfort of your safe distance and keyboard. Our Harrow, Our Community means that is is for us ALL. Anyone who doesn't like that, TOUGH!! Like or not we are where we are. What would YOU suggest as of NOW and not some mythical past idyll?
Fool yourself CLLR ZEID, however, the facts are evident and blatant for all to see. And for your info. Harrow WAS my hometown until I was RUN OUT! And I thank my Goddess that I don't live there anymore.
And please refrain from insulting the Welsh; your jibe about "militant nationalists" is quite offensive. But that's the problem YOU can do what you like, however, when other people disagree with YOUR way you spit your dummy out don't you.
Grow up Cllr Zeid and don't shout!
Cllr Jeremy Zeid
says...
1:02pm Sat 12 Sep 09
SeaBee
says...
1:04pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Heather Davies
says...
1:05pm Sat 12 Sep 09
dudlien123
says...
1:13pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Sanah
says...
1:16pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Bill Baker wrote:I thought the protests from the far right were to remember those who lost their lives in the 9-11 attrocity and not to vent their anger at the mosque for allegedly wanting to implement shariah council there?? Heather Davies, you can hardly compare Harrow to the holy land of Palestine. You had a choice to leave Harrow, the people of Palestine were illegally removed from their homes and lands and live in fear every second of every day. Your view of Muslims and Islam is very distorted!! Please do not follow the crowds, obtain your opinion first hand from credible sources not the tabloids. I feel sad that you are filled with so much hate.
The small amount of protesters that attended from the right wing shows that the majority of people who were intitially intending the protest withdrew as the Harrow mosque had issued a statement stating the uses of the new mosque would not include Shariah Laws nor entertain radical elements and theat they were proud to be British Citizens, which satisfied many people who are oppposed to Shariah Law in any form, but respect Muslims have a right to religious freedom as anyone else does. The radical muslims however and the UAF scumbags attacking police on Friday shows how extremists are taking over Islam and maybe the Mosque has no control at all over radicals in its midst and it is the radicals controlling in reality. Had the few protesters been left alone and ignored behind the police line nothing would of been acheived by the right wing and they would of been ridiculed for their limited presence and shown that extremism has no support in this country. However the reaction by Muslim extremists has merely added to the ranks of the right wing and gained them support now, with the situation snowballing across the country now, politically at the polls and physically in the demonstrations that take place. Only people that seem to get hurt are the brave lads in the police force who have to take on the radicals on both sides
joshisthebest4
says...
1:23pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Cllr Jeremy Zeid
says...
1:36pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Any that showed up, several hours AFTER the start amounted to no more than 15 or 20 people.
Sorry to say, but the radical Muslims who showed up from elsewhare, attacked anyone with a white face.
The fights you saw had NO right-wingers present, NOT ONE.
It was the fascist Left and radicalized youths, who, bored with standing around, attacked the police.
The BBC's emphasis on the right is a bloody disgrace. It did not happen like that. NO RIGHT WINGER rioted.
Sanah
says...
1:39pm Sat 12 Sep 09
heart is lifted. You are no better than those who turned out to fight yesterday. So most of them were Asian, does that automatically make them Muslim? No!! You use the word "cult" again, Islam wasn't spread by the sword like some religions. People accepting Islam has drastically increased since 9-11 - amongst all nationalities and races. Doesn't that speak for itself? I was neither forced nor brainwashed to become Muslim. You should change yourself first before you try to change others.
SBE
says...
2:20pm Sat 12 Sep 09
SBE
says...
2:22pm Sat 12 Sep 09
pricklypilgrim
says...
2:40pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Sanah wrote:To be fair, the Councillor is also aggressive. And inaccurate: almost by definition "fascism" is a right wing concept, but he writes of "left wing fascists" - and adds, even more iinaccurately, that no right-winger rioted! The EDL are left-wingers, I take it?! Puleez!
The only aggression here is coming from you Heather Davies, I pray to God that the seal on your heart is lifted. You are no better than those who turned out to fight yesterday. So most of them were Asian, does that automatically make them Muslim? No!! You use the word "cult" again, Islam wasn't spread by the sword like some religions. People accepting Islam has drastically increased since 9-11 - amongst all nationalities and races. Doesn't that speak for itself? I was neither forced nor brainwashed to become Muslim. You should change yourself first before you try to change others.
Both parties use broad swipes, generalisations demonising swathes of the population with more aggression than accuracy.
rcbaron
says...
2:54pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Of course Muslims should be allowed to practise their religion, provided they let the rest of us get on with our lives. All the Muslims I know are respected because they practice their religion with discretion.
The people who need to be stopped are the Islamists. If I asked the first 100 people I met if they wanted Britain to be run as the Taliban ran Afghanistan, I guess that not one would want it. That would include Muslims.
The sad thing is that the Government has left this decision to protest groups with a dubious agenda, such as SIOE.
SBE
says...
3:53pm Sat 12 Sep 09
However, I don’t think the terror threat is based on the Taliban wanting to take over Britain and the only places being taken over during this time are places such as Afghanistan Palestine and most of the Middle East and that’s not by the Taliban. Some preachers in the UK have been spreading extreme hate and the wrong message about Islam and such people are in fact breaking the rules of Islam but this a minority and not the majority. Others preach against the occupation of Islamic countries and if you watch the British news for long enough there are a number of justifications. What we do not see is the actual destruction being caused in occupied land and the number of innocent people being killed. For example we heard of over a thousand being killed in Palestine recently. That’s over a thousand people like me and you, yet we were TOLD it is justified because of the terrorists hiding there. If we were to ask the victims who they believed the terrorists were we would receive a different answer to that of BBC news. Sometimes we have to look at the bigger picture for things to make sense. If Britain has fallen victim to terrorist attacks then you cannot blame innocent tax paying Muslims. They have not provoked such attacks but you have to ask the question who has. Remember the July bombings Muslims were also killed. If you have received any justifications from the media then please question them as our government is not as innocent in all of this as makes out to be. It’s the innocent people of Britain and around the world that have to face the awful consequences
Heather Davies
says...
5:02pm Sat 12 Sep 09
We can all argue amongst one another but the fact is that today's Harrow is not the "classy" and "lovely" town in which I grew up in.
WHY? I rest my case!
Obelix
says...
5:12pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Personally, I think it makes sense that a town with a large Muslim community has a purpose built Mosque. There are a lot of Christians here and they all have there own church buildings. In the area, there are also Jewish, Hindu and Sikh places of worship. If you built a mosque in a town with no prior Muslim community, I could see how that could be classed as “Islamification”
, but the worshipers at Harrow Mosque live here, work here, go to school here and, in very many cases, are British by birth.
However, I do have a big problem with my hometown being disrupted and my family’s safety put at risk, because of two groups that wish to bring trouble here. I would have preferred it if the police had refused permission for the protest to go ahead. These Nazis were outsiders, and should have no say in what goes on in our community. However, once the policed allowed the protest, it should have been allowed to go ahead without the threat of violent resistance. People have a right to express their views without the threat of violent reprisals. I understand the need to protect what is dear to you, but letting young Muslim men run amok - attacking the Nazi protesters and attacking the police - did nothing to safeguard the Muslim community in Harrow. I now understand that many of the Muslim troublemakers were also - as the Nazis were - outsiders to this community.
Now all of these thugs, from both sides of barricade, have gone back to where they belong, I am worried that the residents of Harrow, may feel more divided along racial and religious lines than ever before. I am worried that Friday’s fracas has done permanent damage to our happy multi-cultural community here in Harrow. I am also worried that our five-year-old child was upset that she had to miss a day of school, to avoid the troubles. Then again, she’ll be fine - after all, she needs a lot less schooling than those pathetic men, from both sides, who disrupted her school day.
Peace
Obelix
says...
5:25pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Cllr Jeremy Zeid
says...
5:34pm Sat 12 Sep 09
A piece of history. Did you know that during the last War, the Unions refused to load the ships for the forces as Herr Hitler was a Socialist albeit a national one.
The Government then "rebranded" Hitler's National Socialism, the ones who gassed and murdered my wife's family as "Right Wing" and not like the other murdering scum the Left Wing "Socialists" and Communists who bumped off so many of my family, because they were Jewish. See where I am going here??
The antics of the UAF and other extreme Left organizations that demonize and attack people is NO different, they are Left Wing FASCISTS. That bthey were prepared to do serious and probably fatal damage to others is a lesson we should not forget. They must be shunned for this reason.
Likewise, those "religious" radicals are religious fascists for the same reason, as some of us don't pray in the right way, to a God who must be laughing at our infantile stupidity.
The "Left" have murdered far more people than the "Right". Hitler about 22m, Stalin approx 35m and the outright winner MAO with 65m. All in all, over 170million people murdered by their own governments over the 20th century alone. And STILL no-one learns.
If some think that I am coming over as "aggressive", sometimes things need to said in plain English as opposed to mealy-mouthed politically correct weasel-words.
Oh yes, and I am probably closer to 9-11 than most, my brother's best friend Aaron having been smashed to molecules in one of the twin towers.
Heather Davies
says...
5:40pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Cllr Jeremy Zeid
says...
5:47pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Heather Davies wrote:I agree entirely. Let's not forget it wasn't the Muslim men OF Harrow, it was those who came TO Harrow.
I am concerned that the totally beautiful and peaceful Hindus and the Sikhs will not be targeted. I hope that these peaceful people will be kept out of this violence caused by Muslim men in Harrow yesterday.
SBE
says...
6:15pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Slander if wasn’t true. However, your beliefs resemble the Nazis and you can try to hide the FACT as much you like but it’s TRUE! Since your INCITING RACIAL HATRED I suggest its you that should be very careful, as that is now against the Law. Just like anyone trying to cover up their racist Nazi side, I like how you suddenly comment on how you love Hindus and Sikhs. Just earlier you comment on how the BNP receiving more votes will be a big favour to you. BNP SIOE NAZIS and YOU same thing!
Richard_at_Harrow
says...
6:38pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Richard_at_Harrow
says...
6:47pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Richard_at_Harrow
says...
7:01pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Heather has every right to voice an opinion. Stickupidiot - you are a complete tw@t as the good Cllr has suggested. You'll go far. And when you do - don't ever come back. Stud - give up this primeval cult. Where is this going to go? It's bad - very bad. You guys have no idea what you have started. On the day that we remembered the fires of 9/11 - what on earth have you idiots gone and done? I am recharging my lightsabre and convening a meeting of all Harrow Jedi Knights. It is time.
Heather Davies
says...
7:16pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Cllr Jeremy Zeid wrote:Jeremy, Jermey you delude yourself, but no-one else.
Heather Davies wrote: I am concerned that the totally beautiful and peaceful Hindus and the Sikhs will not be targeted. I hope that these peaceful people will be kept out of this violence caused by Muslim men in Harrow yesterday.I agree entirely. Let's not forget it wasn't the Muslim men OF Harrow, it was those who came TO Harrow.
pricklypilgrim
says...
7:25pm Sat 12 Sep 09
joshisthebest4 wrote:I thought I'd quote this piece of sense, in case it was missed in all the BLOCK CAPITALS and insults.
Mr Zeid i think you are missing the overall point of what has occured. Although not everyone there was from harrow, the fact that these masked thugs exist is the worrying problem, the fact that the protest errupted into violence in harrow is not the biggest problem here, it is the fact that the violence occured and placing the blame on near by communities is just not a good enough answer. There are obviously underlying social problems in not just the muslim community but the community as a whole and real hard work from the council is needed to fix it.
The problem isn't where the trouble-makers came from; it is that they found such fertile ground in Harrow in which to sow seeds of cultural enmity. Instead of insulting members of the electorate, members of the council would do better to discover (by *listening* to) the hopes and fears of the community as a whole and work out exactly what can be done to ensure peaceful co-existence. joshisthebest4 is right - something had to be wrong within Harrow itself for it to become such a tinderbox.
Richard_at_Harrow
says...
7:44pm Sat 12 Sep 09
The very first thing that Jesus did was to turn the other cheek. The very first thing the other chap did (PBOH - shhhh you know who) was to raise an army.
Hmmm - army of peace was it?
Richard_at_Harrow
says...
7:47pm Sat 12 Sep 09
SBE
says...
8:19pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Richard_at_Harrow
says...
9:14pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Richard_at_Harrow
says...
9:16pm Sat 12 Sep 09
God - what a dumbass.
Richard_at_Harrow
says...
9:27pm Sat 12 Sep 09
SBE
says...
9:35pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Richard_at_Harrow
says...
9:38pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Richard_at_Harrow
says...
9:40pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Richard_at_Harrow
says...
9:49pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Richard_at_Harrow
says...
9:57pm Sat 12 Sep 09
Richard_at_Harrow
says...
10:20pm Sat 12 Sep 09
amy425
says...
10:24pm Sat 12 Sep 09
amy425
says...
10:31pm Sat 12 Sep 09
urgggghhh
Richard_at_Harrow
says...
10:34pm Sat 12 Sep 09
amy425
says...
10:38pm Sat 12 Sep 09
spmalkani
says...
12:51am Sun 13 Sep 09
M DOWN.
Hurling abuse at each other is the last thing we want to be doing, otherwise those who came into Harrow, with pre-meditated agendas, to cause mayhem in our home town will be rewarded for inciting so much hatred.We are not here to provide "entertainment" as one person indicated rather sadistically.Such misguided souls need our prayers and help.
They must be made to realise that their "divide and rule" policy is a failed ploy.Bickering amongst ourselves will only generate bitterness.
We must make sure that,in future, no one is given the opportunity to come in and abuse us in our own home.Of course,in a totally non-violent and law-abiding way.
To get to that point,it is vital that we let our tempers cool, so that we all can get together and forge concrete plans to make our diverse communities here genuinely appreciate that we all only have ONE COMMON ENEMY---anyone plotting to promote hatred in any shape or form.Let us make Harrow a" no-go" area for them.That means seriously building a very strong community.
PLEASE let us apply our minds and energies to looking carefully what we can do to strengthen the fabric of our borough so that it can withstand all sorts of challenges and bounce back,unscathed.
Who did what to whom and whatever will be analyzed in great detail.Meanwhile,we must get a hold over our raging emotions and harness those passions for the greater good.
This is not just about me or you,its about every single one of us.We are not wild beasts but civilized,educated human beings.
The Communities Minister and Home Office are contemplating changes tha to existing laws togrant powers to deal with unexpected situations like the ones that erupted in Harrow yesterday.
It is about the safety of our nation and of ALL of us.
The cost of policing something like this and others have been phenomenal,both financially and in human terms.Surely,as tax-payers we want all our monies to be used to help make society safer and not be sucked away foolishly,because we have lost our sense of discilpline.Do we really have to be policed to behave like decent human beings?How about showing some respect for each other and for those who we have chosen to protect us?
I humbly request anyone reading this to start coming up with genuine ideas and suggestions to take to the people in charge of our safety and security and help make our home,Harrow,safe from invaders.
Contact your local police teams and the Council and start the ball rolling.
God bless us all.
SuperStudent18
says...
1:18am Sun 13 Sep 09
May they find a cure, Richard, and when they do, they can a dosage to Heather in Wales.
Harrow United
says...
1:56am Sun 13 Sep 09
Please do your research on SIOE/EDL, you will see the involvement of BNP members and their intentions. See Saturday 12th Sept The Guardian - double spread - SIOE/EDL member giving a Nazi salute.
The anti-racists were diverse in age, ethnicity, race and gender. The atmosphere was friendly. Yes there were many young men there - some hot headed as you would find in any tense situation. Not all of them were Muslim. There were also many people like myself outraged that we should be threatened by a racist group - the council / police should have banned the SIOE demo after recent events in Luton and Birmingham. The reality is that in Luton recently, over 1500 SIOE/EDL thugs turned up, and Asian people and shops were attacked viciously. A man was killed in a racial attack in Tooting last week. What if this had happened in Harrow? We would have been grateful that there were young men present to challenge them.
Stephen Gash the odious organiser of SIOE had promised an organised self-escorted group that were supposed to meet at the station at 5pm and then proceed to the demo. He was in fact in Harrow and was arrested for committing a breach of the peace. Instead, they came in vans in small groups from different places - aggressive gangs, shouting racist slogans. I saw one group of them corralled by the police hurling abuse, chanting "EDL EDL" and one of them was filmed giving a Nazi salute. The police overall did a very good job and so did the stewards and individual anti-racists who helped keep the peace. Yes there were some stones thrown but this was done by a very small minority - nobody was hurt and no property was damaged. People did not run amok all over Wealdstone - the two incidents were brief and contained. I spoke to residents where the SIOE/EDL/BNP thugs were gathered and blocked by the police - they were appalled that these people had been allowed to even enter our borough, our community. Some of them applauded the youth for standing up to them.
The media have not reported things that I saw, for example, during a disturbance when some of the racists had been spotted - an elderly white gentleman was walking over the bridge to go the working men's club for a drink. He was unfazed by the large groups of mainly Asian and Afro-Caribbean lads around him, a few of whom made sure he was OK and walked with him to the club, chatting. This is Harrow.
The way we can combat fundamentalism of any kind is to come together, have dialogues, provide alternatives for young people, and organise around how we can prevent racist and fascist groups from threatening us and causing conflict between us. Let us not blame each other - but look to ways that we can prevent racists from ever coming here again. Make the SIOE/EDL pay for the policing costs. I will post some links that will show the news that was not reported. Please Harrow Times give us a fairer reporting - Tristan Kirk's reporting has not given us a fair picture and you have not let us have our say on his pages.
Cllr Jeremy Zeid
says...
2:08am Sun 13 Sep 09
1. pricklypilgrim. There is nothing "wrong" in Harrow that caused this, in the same way that there is nothing "wrong" with your body when it invaded by a virus. In the second case the body's immune system, unless fatally weakened, eventually gets rid of the virus. In the first case, the "immune system" of a healthy community, gets rid of the disruptive and dangerous.
2. I thought that I remembered Heather Davies, she used to live opposite Harrow Leisure Centre. Sorry that you seem to have a different experience of Kenton. BTW, I was elected because my fellow residents reckoned that I could serve them and do a reasonable job on their behalf. Harrow is just fine.
3. spmalkani. Sorry, but any suggestion that the cretinous "New" Labour "Communities Minister" and the useless interfering, dysfunctional Home Office could run a bath, let alone sort this out, is to seriously over-estimate them. They and this idiot infested government are the problem. It is precisely their ham-fisted tinkering, blundering interference and crass stupidity that has caused so much of this. I suggest that we need far FEWER "tough new laws", far LESS interference, the clearout of a General Election and a government that minds its own business and leaves us the hell alone.. Every time these blundering, ham-fisted, hatchet-faced, incompetents open their mouths without engaging the brains they don't have, we get more problems because these blustering cretins always think that they know best and are incapable of considering any logical consequences of their actions. All they care about is the next "eye-catching headline" and their own petty egos.
This needs an urgent, full and frank, no-holds-barred discussion, at least an Hour, at the next meeting of HPCCG, Harrow Police and Community Consultative Group. Public welcome to attend and observe.
I suspect that this will be an urgent addition to the Cabinet agenda next Thursday 7.30pm Committee Rooms 1&2, public welcome. Questions can only be asked if submitted in advance, me included.
This will also be raised and discussed at the next Full Council, again, public welcome to attend. The are public questions, but questions must be forwarded in advance and in writing, check the website or ring the Civic Centre and ask for Democratic Services. Check the harrow.gov.uk website for dates.
Oh yes, rcbaron, quite agree.... Hi Rodney, long time no see.
Harrow United
says...
2:16am Sun 13 Sep 09
Harrow United
says...
2:35am Sun 13 Sep 09
If you go online you will now see racist group websites using Tristan Kirk's reports because of the particularly emotional language he has used. They have particularly liked " Hoards of rampaging young Asian men..." and "the baying crowd..." well you can imagine the racist vitriol they have written quoting our local paper. Own goal Harrow Times...
Harrow United
says...
2:46am Sun 13 Sep 09
http://www.youtube.c
om/user/harrowunited
#play/uploads/0/-mdw
kJhGBBM
spmalkani
says...
3:39am Sun 13 Sep 09
We should arrange to have a joint public discussion of key partners including Harrow Police,the Council, HPCCG and Harrow Central Mosque among others.
Please,let us all cool down first and re-assure our communities that it's business as usual in Harrow.Plenty of time to do the rest later.
Cllr Jeremy Zeid
says...
4:44am Sun 13 Sep 09
spmalkani wrote:Sorry, but I disagree. This is by far the most important issue and should be discussed asap. I am very disappointed at this response. It won't go away and needs to be dealt with while memories are clear and I don't intend to be silent on the thugs and masked bully-boys attached to and whipped up by the laughingly named "Unite Against Fascism"
The Harrow Police & Community Consultative group meeting will not be blocking an hour for discussing the recent demonstrations but will only speak about this for a short while as we have a packed agenda to get through and a pre-arranged presentation.
We should arrange to have a joint public discussion of key partners including Harrow Police,the Council, HPCCG and Harrow Central Mosque among others.
Please,let us all cool down first and re-assure our communities that it's business as usual in Harrow.Plenty of time to do the rest later.
Most of the HPCCG agenda is taken up with repetition, statistics and presentations, the next time would be better used discussing this incident and learning from it. An HOUR should be about right and I would suggest clearing the rest of the agenda to do this, it is hardly earth-shattering stuff.
We are fortunate in Harrow that normally we can indulge in the luxury of arguing about the statistics attached to low crime figures. This time it is very different.
Now that we have had this violence caused entirely by radicals from outside and the ghastly UAF and their class warriors, it is the ONLY matter that should be on the agenda and I am certain that the other members will agree. I suggest putting it vto a show of hands or a secret ballot on the evening.
Come what may, I will be there and asking questions, based on what I saw and experienced on the front line.
The tax funded HPCCG owes the people of Harrow that forum as a right. Sorry if that doesn't fit into the usual neat, well-controlled agenda, but racist and fascist left, right and religious thugs have a habit of being rather "inconvenient" and not fitting in with a comfortable agenda.
Either HPCCG is a racial and policing forum in REAL TIME or it is nothing. The taxpayer who pays the grant that funds it, rightly demands that it is. Your call. I will be there.
DimSum
says...
9:52am Sun 13 Sep 09
The Harrow area is a disgrace.
SBE
says...
11:24am Sun 13 Sep 09
Harrow United wrote:The report by Tristan Kirk received roughly 50 messages but these were removed and now you cannot comment. The report is of course very biased but that’s the media for you.
To Harrow Times: RE: Tristan Kirk's reports. If you go online you will now see racist group websites using Tristan Kirk's reports because of the particularly emotional language he has used. They have particularly liked " Hoards of rampaging young Asian men..." and "the baying crowd..." well you can imagine the racist vitriol they have written quoting our local paper. Own goal Harrow Times...
Cllr Jeremy Zeid
says...
11:48am Sun 13 Sep 09
But then of course the elective dictatorship, the strictly controlled gilded cage police-state that is Singapore is heaven on Earth.
What is a disgrace, is that from thousands of miles away you make idiotic and ill-informed statements.
It may not be perfect here soon we will vote our control-freak dictators OUT in a real election.
For my part, I will stay in my "disgraceful" but FREE and uncensored Harrow with the elections next year.
You on the other hand can never be sure when your State decides what freedoms you should enjoy or should be removed "for your own good of course", Can't have the proles having too much liberty can we. You even have to apply for an EXIT PERMIT to leave your own country.
I hope that it never happens to you, but unlike here, you can never be sure. Twitchy prisoners, always uncertain as to what will be announced next, in a comfortable, air-conditioned, well swept, media-controlled, sealed border, golden penitentiary, where repressive laws and legal process is used to muzzle and criminalize all and any criticism of the government.
Yep, give me "disgraceful" Harrow, freedom and all of the rest of it. Despite Labour's best efforts we aren't in a open prison yet, and next year they will be OUT. As for Singapore, from what I have heard, beautifully clean, but watch your back for the agents of the State.
Cllr Jeremy Zeid
says...
12:21pm Sun 13 Sep 09
SBE wrote:Sorry guys, but Tristan's report was ACCURATE. I witnessed it first hand and I have seen extensive footage of "Hoards of rampaging young Asian men", what else should he have reported? A large crowd of indeterminate gendered, variously apparelled people of uncertain racial origin, sauntered toward the station to extend greetings, fellowship and understanding in a spirit of free speech????
Harrow United wrote:The report by Tristan Kirk received roughly 50 messages but these were removed and now you cannot comment. The report is of course very biased but that’s the media for you.
To Harrow Times: RE: Tristan Kirk's reports. If you go online you will now see racist group websites using Tristan Kirk's reports because of the particularly emotional language he has used. They have particularly liked " Hoards of rampaging young Asian men..." and "the baying crowd..." well you can imagine the racist vitriol they have written quoting our local paper. Own goal Harrow Times...
And again sorry guys, but the crowd was baying and being whipped up by the UAF and radicals from outside.
That ONE member of the dozen or so berks from the EDL shouted "EDL EDL" is hardly "Inflammatory" or "intimidating" and with all due respect not even "threatening". ONE person for goodness sakes, is that how insecure we all are?
What is intimidating to many, and this is NOT a swipe at Islam, although it is a swipe at those agitators and "warriors" who came from outside to whip up the crowd, but a very large crowd of hyped up young men, many with covered faces, shouting slogans and waving their arms in the air can be very unsettling.
As for the comments being removed, I suspect that THEY were the inflammatory and dangerous ones. Don't accuse Tristan, he is an honest and impartial journalist who reported what he saw and that tallies EXACTLY with what I saw, unlike the BBC who seemed to make it up as they went along.
Sorry guys, but the truth is sometimes painful. This needs to be discussed like adults with the admission that we all made mistakes and share the blame. Truth be told again, but the "defenders" who came from far and wide, some armed with knuckledusters and iron bars, yes it's true, were the real instigators of violence as were the khaffiyah masked "students" who hid behind walls to throw missiles at the police who had done nothing but try to stop violence.
There are those who need to look deeply within themselves and who have dragged Islam through the mud and besmirched the wholly innocent and righteous Harrow Mosque by association. I hope that you can live with yourselves.
Anti-Nazi
says...
2:24pm Sun 13 Sep 09
oglemail.com from the Bishop of Willesden, members of the executive of the National Union of Teachers and many others. We held a rally with speakers including the MP, London Assembly member, Weyman Bennett from UAF and trade unionists asserting support for the mosque.
I can state categroically that Unite Against Fascism were NOT inciting young men to violence. I was on the megaphone calling for groups who ran off when they thought the fascists from the EDL had been spotted to do as the mosque stewards were asking and return to defend the mosque. We had called for a large, united demonstration to defend the mosque and the unity of Harrow's community. We had that. A demonstration so large and so united that it was crystal clear to SIOE/EDL that they and their divisive views ARE NOT WELCOME IN HARROW. The actions of small groups detracted from this demonstration so that it was hardly reported.
The editor of the Harrow Times group, Rachel Sharp, put out a maginificent statement of defence for Harrow's community and Harrow's mosque, but the paper's reporters Jack Royston and Tristram Kirk seem very biased towards the EDL. It was Jack Royston, after all, who headlined his report shortly before the demo, "Numbers swelling for 9/11 Mosque Protest." Giving the impression that SOIE/EDL would be bringing large numbers to protest against the mosque on a Friday in Ramadan. Is it any wonder that people felt it necessary to respond by mobilising large numbers to defend their mosque and their community?
If the EDL had been allowed to demonstrate unopposed in Harrow as they did in Luton, they would have been back for more. If there had not been an organised demonstration in oppositiont to the fascists, the outcome could have been far more violent. As it was, there was a large, overwhelmingly peacful, multi-racial protest against their attempts to spread hatred and divide us.
Harrow is united and will not be divided.
Sarah Cox, UAF Brent & Harrow
Cllr Jeremy Zeid
says...
2:54pm Sun 13 Sep 09
Your placards were inaccurate. The "students" you whipped up didn't have clue what the "protest" was about.
Your "announcements" and slogans were inflammatory.
You were NOT there to "support" the Mosque. You were the usual bunch of assorted Marxists and Trots engaged in the boring and tedious class war. many of your sheeplike "followers" even admitted that they were here to fight "capitalism".
It is a sham that under the UAF banner lies a highly FASCISTIC hard-left ideology.
And can can yo explain why some of the WHITE UAF supporters who were clustered around the UAF banners and megaphone had their FACES COVERED.
Why, when it was clear that only a handful of EDL protesters had arrived did UAF not tell people to calm down and go home.
"Unite" came over as a union of left-wing thugs.
As for the Harrow Mosque, I can assure you Sarah, that they despise your lot as much as the EDL and the religious extremists who turned up.
The extreme Right are not welcome in Harrow and neither are the Left, who from as far back as I can remember are almost always the source of the unrest and violence.
As you say, Harrow is UNITED, but not under your hypocritical and divisive intolerant, violent fascist-left banner.
Cllr Jeremy Zeid
says...
3:11pm Sun 13 Sep 09
The UAF and the religious extremists adopted for the day, triggered the violence. For the most part, apart from rumours, there was not a single EDL/SIOE member in sight. No EDL march, and no demo.
Oh and by the way, the Mosque had cross-party support, especially the CONSERVATIVE ruling group, some of us putting ourselves in jeopardy defending our community, but then this cold hard truth doesn't suit you. The hard-left always trying to distort reality.
And please do not tell us that you are defending freedom, belief or democracy when you of the dangerous hard-left are incapable of allowing that freedom to those with whom you disagree.
How you can say that the demonstration was "so united" with a straight face? United in hatred and violence maybe. United in peace and freedom of speech, I don't think so.
You hypocrites represent no-one here.
Cllr Jeremy Zeid
says...
3:12pm Sun 13 Sep 09
The UAF and the religious extremists and masked hatemongers you adopted for the day, triggered the violence. For the most part, apart from rumours, there was not a single EDL/SIOE member in sight. No EDL march, and no demo.
Oh and by the way, the Mosque had cross-party support, especially the CONSERVATIVE ruling group, some of us putting ourselves in jeopardy defending our community, but then this cold hard truth doesn't suit you. The hard-left always trying to distort reality.
And please do not tell us that you are defending freedom, belief or democracy when you of the dangerous hard-left are incapable of allowing that freedom to those with whom you disagree.
How you can say that the demonstration was "so united" with a straight face? United in hatred and violence maybe. United in peace and freedom of speech, I don't think so.
You hypocrites represent no-one here.
amy425
says...
4:48pm Sun 13 Sep 09
amy425
says...
4:54pm Sun 13 Sep 09
DimSum
says...
5:46pm Sun 13 Sep 09
That was a long and rather fanciful reply to my post. You were clever enough to check the email address I used, oddly enough though not clever enough to work out that I am not in Singapore. Assumtions, seems to be the way of the political classes nowdays.
So, just like your Dear Leader, brain and mouth disconnected.
...... and Harrow is still a disgrace, and you are, and always will be helpless to do anything about !.
Damage done.
SuperStudent18
says...
6:49pm Sun 13 Sep 09
Shocking.
amy425
says...
6:54pm Sun 13 Sep 09
Your ignorant narrow minded comments are still inaccurate. Tristan like any other journalist is bound by their goals of propaganda and public attention seeking. No I was not there but I witnessed the events in Luton but of course you didn’t read my comment very well. So what did you and your council badge do prior to the protest to prevent chaos from occurring? NOTHING! But you seem to have the answer for everything now. I am so glad that people made sure that these people didn’t get anywhere near their place of worship as you and your id badge would not have been much use then. Your loyalty to the media shows you’re the one that’s blinded particularly by the TIMES. By the way I like how you can determine a person’s ethnicity just by looking at their eyes. It must be the magical powers of your ID badge.
pricklypilgrim
says...
7:30pm Sun 13 Sep 09
SuperStudent18 wrote:It *is* shocking! Over-emotional, crude and OTT. Lacking in dignity, in a way that one doesn't expect to see in someone with political aspirations.
'Cllr' Jeremy Zeid, can you EVER make a point without being offensive? Shocking.
Heather Davies
says...
7:38pm Sun 13 Sep 09
pricklypilgrim
says...
7:41pm Sun 13 Sep 09
Heather Davies
says...
7:41pm Sun 13 Sep 09
SuperStudent18
says...
8:17pm Sun 13 Sep 09
See, there is some hope left in this world!
shay123
says...
4:44pm Mon 14 Sep 09
rcbaron
says...
10:16am Tue 15 Sep 09
I think that Cllr Jeremy Zeid has added to the confusion by his reference to left-Wing Fascists. The people who claim to be the extreme opposite of Fascists and Nazis are usually known as Commies. I accept his point that if you moved from one regime to the other you might not be able to tell the difference.
The mainstream news media don't help by treating the far Left as normal, so that anyone opposed to them must be far Right.
I don't understand how Palestine came into all this. I guess that someone looked at his map to locate the recent conflict involving the Tamils, and found it was in a part of the British Empire called Ceylon. Palestine is on the same map.
DimSum
says...
9:08am Wed 16 Sep 09
These posts you have made Jeremy were a terrific career move ! Bye !
harrowsucks
says...
10:40am Wed 16 Sep 09
spmalkani wrote:Yeh, i agree 100%, harsher immigration rules and no more moqsues would do the trick.
Time to take stock and reflect on how to keep such disgraceful people out of this borough.impossible to believe this happened in our Harrow.
harrowsucks
says...
10:45am Wed 16 Sep 09
spmalkani wrote:Lived here my whole life and this saddens me, Harrow used to be such a nice place.
Time to take stock and reflect on how to keep such disgraceful people out of this borough.impossible to believe this happened in our Harrow.
The fact is, multiculturism and mass immigration from third world countries HAS ruined it, any logical thinking person who lives here would know that.
DimSum
says...
11:17am Wed 16 Sep 09
Thanks NuLabour !!
How much more damage can they do ?
The likes of Jeremy can't do a thing about it, his cronies are going to rub our noses in it.
Richard_at_Harrow
says...
7:15pm Sat 19 Sep 09
Hey kid grow up. Throwing insults around just confirms you're as thick as JBE. By the way stud, seems like your primeval cult has taken a battering. Oh well - must be time for prayers. Off you go - and don't forget to clean your snotty nose while you're at it.
Richard_at_Harrow
says...
7:17pm Sat 19 Sep 09
mom says...
11:08pm Fri 11 Sep 09
I hope that this is not a turning point in the wrong direction but a blip that will never be repeated.
A very sad day to see us on the news that way.