Adoption of Somali child by lesbian couple suspended by Harrow Borough Council

Harrow Times: Adoption of Somali child by lesbian couple suspended Adoption of Somali child by lesbian couple suspended

A planned adoption of a Somali child by a lesbian couple has been put on hold following protests from the Somali community.

The Harrow Times last week reported that more than 50 women protested outside Harrow Borough Council offices last week against an adoption they said was against their religious beliefs.

It is understood the adoption has been put on hold while the council examines the issues of the case.

The family involved in the case are being supported by the Victoria Climbie Foundation, which campaigns for improvement in child protection policies.

Director of the foundation Mor Dioum said: “Our main concern has been the process by which the adoption has been carried out.

“There is not an issue with the sexual orientation of the adoptive couple. We believe there has been a lack of communication between the children’s services at the council.

“It is right that this case is being reviewed but we want to see a general independent review of services so we don’t see cases like this again.”

According to friends of the family, the child was taken into care just over a year ago and its two other siblings have also been put into foster care.

It is understood the mother has previously suffered from mental health problems and that other members of the family offered to take care of the child.

A spokesman for the council said they could not comment on specific details.

In a statement, council leader Councillor Susan Hall said: “Clearly there is always an ideal that a child could be matched with parents from a similar background and heritage.

“But the reality is the ultimate choice is governed by the kind of adoptive parents who are available.

“The most important thing is that the child goes to a loving and supportive home and to people we believe, on the basis of thorough assessment, are best suited to look after them.

“There is clearly a need for potential foster and adoptive parents from different ethnic backgrounds to come forward as recruits.

“As the country’s population becomes more diverse, that requirement is only going to intensify and it is something we need to address as soon as we can.

“The careful search for the right adoptive parents also has to be matched against the fact that the child isn’t helped if this process drags on.”

Comments (32)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

10:58am Mon 3 Feb 14

SeaBee says...

And there's me thinking that the council is supposed to act in the best interests of the child.
And there's me thinking that the council is supposed to act in the best interests of the child. SeaBee
  • Score: 6

1:04pm Mon 3 Feb 14

rabbitz says...

Homophobia alive and thriving in Harrow, I find it astounding that people who fled civil war and were welcomed into the UK turn around and discriminate against the gay people adopting a child from their community might i also point out the babies two older siblings are in foster care and not one of them has come forward to adopt them so i can only concur that the real reason to the opposition is purely Cultural religious homophobia.
Homophobia alive and thriving in Harrow, I find it astounding that people who fled civil war and were welcomed into the UK turn around and discriminate against the gay people adopting a child from their community might i also point out the babies two older siblings are in foster care and not one of them has come forward to adopt them so i can only concur that the real reason to the opposition is purely Cultural religious homophobia. rabbitz
  • Score: 21

2:59pm Mon 3 Feb 14

DJFearRoss says...

It has been put on hold when the 'issue is examined by the council'. We all know what the real issue is here, it is a religious issue, or more non-PC 'an Islamic issue'. There is nothing else to examine. Somalians in the UK have the highest unemployment rate of any group, even Pakistanis, so it is clear this group relies on state handouts as it is. The fact that they seem so against the child now being adopted but not that the majority of them are out of work should say something!!
It has been put on hold when the 'issue is examined by the council'. We all know what the real issue is here, it is a religious issue, or more non-PC 'an Islamic issue'. There is nothing else to examine. Somalians in the UK have the highest unemployment rate of any group, even Pakistanis, so it is clear this group relies on state handouts as it is. The fact that they seem so against the child now being adopted but not that the majority of them are out of work should say something!! DJFearRoss
  • Score: 3

7:11pm Mon 3 Feb 14

jackdaw says...

I hope this lady is receiving contraceptive advice from the mental health service. Two of her children are in care and the third is up for adoption. If she is not taking advice on contraception she could go producing children ad infinitum and this scenario could occur again and again.
Incidentally where do the fathers fit into the picture as I assume these were not virgin births?
I hope this lady is receiving contraceptive advice from the mental health service. Two of her children are in care and the third is up for adoption. If she is not taking advice on contraception she could go producing children ad infinitum and this scenario could occur again and again. Incidentally where do the fathers fit into the picture as I assume these were not virgin births? jackdaw
  • Score: 12

5:58am Tue 4 Feb 14

Samy3r says...

Homo and lesbians is totally a morale wrong As it's not stated In Bible Nor Koran ,Nor any other Holly Bo oks there ,i believe these Refugees should be heard and respected accordingly
Homo and lesbians is totally a morale wrong As it's not stated In Bible Nor Koran ,Nor any other Holly Bo oks there ,i believe these Refugees should be heard and respected accordingly Samy3r
  • Score: -13

8:39am Tue 4 Feb 14

ipsofacto says...

Susan Hall says:

“Clearly there is always an ideal that a child could be matched with parents from a similar background and heritage"

But when these parents are not coming forward what are the social workers supposed to do? Shunt the child from one set of foster parents to another for the rest of her childhood?

Susan Hall also says:

“The most important thing is that the child goes to a loving and supportive home and to people we believe, on the basis of thorough assessment, are best suited to look after them"

Quite right. And that home has already been found by the borough's social workers. So why have they not been allowed to go ahead with the adoption?

It is absolutely clear to me that the interests of this child are *not* being met because the local authority has caved in to protests from a very small and very homophobic minority of the borough's population. Susan Hall, who authorised that the process of adoption should be halted and why did they do so? Do you not think that we have a collective responsibility to ensure thtat every child who has to be fostered/adopted has the right to be brought up in a environment which is neither racist or homophobic? Or does homophobia simply not matter?
Susan Hall says: “Clearly there is always an ideal that a child could be matched with parents from a similar background and heritage" But when these parents are not coming forward what are the social workers supposed to do? Shunt the child from one set of foster parents to another for the rest of her childhood? Susan Hall also says: “The most important thing is that the child goes to a loving and supportive home and to people we believe, on the basis of thorough assessment, are best suited to look after them" Quite right. And that home has already been found by the borough's social workers. So why have they not been allowed to go ahead with the adoption? It is absolutely clear to me that the interests of this child are *not* being met because the local authority has caved in to protests from a very small and very homophobic minority of the borough's population. Susan Hall, who authorised that the process of adoption should be halted and why did they do so? Do you not think that we have a collective responsibility to ensure thtat every child who has to be fostered/adopted has the right to be brought up in a environment which is neither racist or homophobic? Or does homophobia simply not matter? ipsofacto
  • Score: 5

11:27am Tue 4 Feb 14

jackdaw says...

Samy3r wrote:
Homo and lesbians is totally a morale wrong As it's not stated In Bible Nor Koran ,Nor any other Holly Bo oks there ,i believe these Refugees should be heard and respected accordingly
Samy3r

Please not that the spelling of holy as holly is not correct. Holly is an evergreen prickly shrub.

Also if you are following these holy books I assume you also obey Leviticus 25-45-46 which advocates slavery.
"Pro-slavery bible verses were cited by many churches in the South during the Civil War, and were used by some theologians in the Dutch Reformed Church to justify apartheid in South Africa.

The world has moved on and it is now understood that slavery is wrong. Also using religious texts to persecute homosexuality is wrong.
After all according to the holy books god made men and women and his theme is love not persecution.
[quote][p][bold]Samy3r[/bold] wrote: Homo and lesbians is totally a morale wrong As it's not stated In Bible Nor Koran ,Nor any other Holly Bo oks there ,i believe these Refugees should be heard and respected accordingly[/p][/quote]Samy3r Please not that the spelling of holy as holly is not correct. Holly is an evergreen prickly shrub. Also if you are following these holy books I assume you also obey Leviticus 25-45-46 which advocates slavery. "Pro-slavery bible verses were cited by many churches in the South during the Civil War, and were used by some theologians in the Dutch Reformed Church to justify apartheid in South Africa. The world has moved on and it is now understood that slavery is wrong. Also using religious texts to persecute homosexuality is wrong. After all according to the holy books god made men and women and his theme is love not persecution. jackdaw
  • Score: 2

11:29am Tue 4 Feb 14

jackdaw says...

Sami3r

Can you quote me a text from any holy book that advocates genital mutilation for females?
Sami3r Can you quote me a text from any holy book that advocates genital mutilation for females? jackdaw
  • Score: 8

12:20pm Tue 4 Feb 14

ipsofacto says...

Samy3r wrote:
Homo and lesbians is totally a morale wrong As it's not stated In Bible Nor Koran ,Nor any other Holly Bo oks there ,i believe these Refugees should be heard and respected accordingly
@Samy3r

What have 'holy' books got to with it? Agnostics/Atheists in the UK (and I am not one of them) are now the second largest 'theological' group after Christians. Homophobia is alive and kicking across all religious groups. We should not give in to them in much the same way that we should never give in to racist groups like the BNP and religious hate groups like 'hizbut tahrir'. We have a very diverse population in Harrow. We should try and respect each other. But if a particular groups demonstrates hatred to one law-abiding group in our community then I lose respect for them.
[quote][p][bold]Samy3r[/bold] wrote: Homo and lesbians is totally a morale wrong As it's not stated In Bible Nor Koran ,Nor any other Holly Bo oks there ,i believe these Refugees should be heard and respected accordingly[/p][/quote]@Samy3r What have 'holy' books got to with it? Agnostics/Atheists in the UK (and I am not one of them) are now the second largest 'theological' group after Christians. Homophobia is alive and kicking across all religious groups. We should not give in to them in much the same way that we should never give in to racist groups like the BNP and religious hate groups like 'hizbut tahrir'. We have a very diverse population in Harrow. We should try and respect each other. But if a particular groups demonstrates hatred to one law-abiding group in our community then I lose respect for them. ipsofacto
  • Score: 1

1:34pm Tue 4 Feb 14

nuszka says...

i'm an adopted somali. had I been adopted according to islamic thinking on the subject i would never have been accepted into the family i was adopted by in the way I was by my loving and caring adoptive family. in some of the more fundimental islamic families I would have been expected to cover up in front of my adoptive brothers and father. how is that good?

I am prepared to put money on the fact that most of the people who are objecting to this adoption are not the sharpest tools in the box and most likely do not have a sophisticated grasp of the religious values they are holding up the adoption of this child for. the parent has given the child over for adoption because there are no members of the family who will provide her with a loving and secure home. that's why the adoption process has been started.
i'm an adopted somali. had I been adopted according to islamic thinking on the subject i would never have been accepted into the family i was adopted by in the way I was by my loving and caring adoptive family. in some of the more fundimental islamic families I would have been expected to cover up in front of my adoptive brothers and father. how is that good? I am prepared to put money on the fact that most of the people who are objecting to this adoption are not the sharpest tools in the box and most likely do not have a sophisticated grasp of the religious values they are holding up the adoption of this child for. the parent has given the child over for adoption because there are no members of the family who will provide her with a loving and secure home. that's why the adoption process has been started. nuszka
  • Score: 9

2:21pm Tue 4 Feb 14

ipsofacto says...

@nuszka

I am very interested to hear your 'first hand' experience of adoption. I am not certain from your post if you were adopted by another, but more liberal, Somali family or whether you were adopted by a black, but non-Somali, family. Can you clarfiy this for me?
@nuszka I am very interested to hear your 'first hand' experience of adoption. I am not certain from your post if you were adopted by another, but more liberal, Somali family or whether you were adopted by a black, but non-Somali, family. Can you clarfiy this for me? ipsofacto
  • Score: 0

3:11pm Tue 4 Feb 14

PraxisReform says...

I can't believe that people would rather see a child left in the care of the Council than placed with a loving family.
I can't believe that people would rather see a child left in the care of the Council than placed with a loving family. PraxisReform
  • Score: 6

3:57pm Tue 4 Feb 14

nuszka says...

@ipsofacto i could not be looked after so someone else adopted me. why does anything else matter? religion is not genetic, unlike skin colour. I feel it would be a great shame to have the child brought up around such stupidity and cultural ignorance.
@ipsofacto i could not be looked after so someone else adopted me. why does anything else matter? religion is not genetic, unlike skin colour. I feel it would be a great shame to have the child brought up around such stupidity and cultural ignorance. nuszka
  • Score: 5

3:57pm Tue 4 Feb 14

ipsofacto says...

PraxisReform wrote:
I can't believe that people would rather see a child left in the care of the Council than placed with a loving family.
I am saddened but not at all surprised that this is the case. Political Correctness is now 'order of the day'. It is not the council's employees who have suspended the process of adoption. That decision has been taken by elected councillors. My fear is that if this girl is not adopted she will be shunted from one foster family to another for all her childhood. And when she grows up as a dysfunctional adult we will all look surprised.
[quote][p][bold]PraxisReform[/bold] wrote: I can't believe that people would rather see a child left in the care of the Council than placed with a loving family.[/p][/quote]I am saddened but not at all surprised that this is the case. Political Correctness is now 'order of the day'. It is not the council's employees who have suspended the process of adoption. That decision has been taken by elected councillors. My fear is that if this girl is not adopted she will be shunted from one foster family to another for all her childhood. And when she grows up as a dysfunctional adult we will all look surprised. ipsofacto
  • Score: 2

3:59pm Tue 4 Feb 14

ipsofacto says...

nuszka wrote:
@ipsofacto i could not be looked after so someone else adopted me. why does anything else matter? religion is not genetic, unlike skin colour. I feel it would be a great shame to have the child brought up around such stupidity and cultural ignorance.
Good reply. Thankyou.
[quote][p][bold]nuszka[/bold] wrote: @ipsofacto i could not be looked after so someone else adopted me. why does anything else matter? religion is not genetic, unlike skin colour. I feel it would be a great shame to have the child brought up around such stupidity and cultural ignorance.[/p][/quote]Good reply. Thankyou. ipsofacto
  • Score: 3

5:22pm Tue 4 Feb 14

Sonoo Malkani says...

Pray that wisdom dawns and putting aside our version of the rights and wrongs in this case,this young girl finds a loving,safe home and stable environment to nurture her growth,sooner rather than later.
Pray that wisdom dawns and putting aside our version of the rights and wrongs in this case,this young girl finds a loving,safe home and stable environment to nurture her growth,sooner rather than later. Sonoo Malkani
  • Score: -5

6:33pm Tue 4 Feb 14

jackdaw says...

it is a shame that when the first two children were put into care that the problems were not dealt with then, Why were the protesters not concerned at this stage. Those children will probably remain in care until they are adult. The ideal would have been for the three siblings to adopted together.

Whatever Cllr Hall and social workers decide it is going to upset somebody in the Harrow community. As nuszka wrote (see comment above) a loving home is what is paramount for this little three year old girl.

nuszka-Thank you vey much for taking the time to write of your experience
of adoption.. I wish you could be involved in the descision as to what happens to this little girl as your contribution would be worth its weight in gold.
it is a shame that when the first two children were put into care that the problems were not dealt with then, Why were the protesters not concerned at this stage. Those children will probably remain in care until they are adult. The ideal would have been for the three siblings to adopted together. Whatever Cllr Hall and social workers decide it is going to upset somebody in the Harrow community. As nuszka wrote (see comment above) a loving home is what is paramount for this little three year old girl. nuszka-Thank you vey much for taking the time to write of your experience of adoption.. I wish you could be involved in the descision as to what happens to this little girl as your contribution would be worth its weight in gold. jackdaw
  • Score: 0

4:20am Wed 5 Feb 14

DJFearRoss says...

Sonoo Malkani wrote:
Pray that wisdom dawns and putting aside our version of the rights and wrongs in this case,this young girl finds a loving,safe home and stable environment to nurture her growth,sooner rather than later.
You previously said that the concerns of the Somalian community should be taken into account? But not the couple adopting. So which one is it?
[quote][p][bold]Sonoo Malkani[/bold] wrote: Pray that wisdom dawns and putting aside our version of the rights and wrongs in this case,this young girl finds a loving,safe home and stable environment to nurture her growth,sooner rather than later.[/p][/quote]You previously said that the concerns of the Somalian community should be taken into account? But not the couple adopting. So which one is it? DJFearRoss
  • Score: 2

9:16am Wed 5 Feb 14

Sonoo Malkani says...

Let me immediately apologise most humbly,if I have upset or confused anybody inadvertently,with my opinion on this highly emotive issue.Every single adoption must have its own set of UNIQUE circumstances. It seems fair that the authorities should judge on the merits of each one---keeping the CHILD's interests uppermost.

Of course,they must have statutory guidelines to work within and clearly stated parameters.However,w
e all recognise that "one size does not fit all.". Human judgement and expertise has to be exercised by an experienced team.Sometimes, there may be an element of "human error"---that goes with the territory.It is a learning curve for all parties.

COMMUNITY FEELINGS have also to be taken into the equation ,in the interests of all concerned.----not just in the case of the Somalis but ALL our communities.It is a very fine balance to try and achieve in a hugely diverse borough like ours and quite challenging for those making these arrangements.Let us be patient and allow them to arrive at a palatable solution.

The ADOPTING COUPLE's feelings ,similarly,cannot be ignored.After all,they are providing the support and home which is so badly needed to place the child in.That said,the best interests of the CHILD must take priority.Thank God,we all have clearly agreed that and spoken with one voice.

I am no expert in this field but have only said what I honestly felt as a concerned member of the community.Just praying this matter is resolved satisfactorily at the earliest possible and this young child afforded the opportunity to start a more secure life soon.
Let me immediately apologise most humbly,if I have upset or confused anybody inadvertently,with my opinion on this highly emotive issue.Every single adoption must have its own set of UNIQUE circumstances. It seems fair that the authorities should judge on the merits of each one---keeping the CHILD's interests uppermost. Of course,they must have statutory guidelines to work within and clearly stated parameters.However,w e all recognise that "one size does not fit all.". Human judgement and expertise has to be exercised by an experienced team.Sometimes, there may be an element of "human error"---that goes with the territory.It is a learning curve for all parties. COMMUNITY FEELINGS have also to be taken into the equation ,in the interests of all concerned.----not just in the case of the Somalis but ALL our communities.It is a very fine balance to try and achieve in a hugely diverse borough like ours and quite challenging for those making these arrangements.Let us be patient and allow them to arrive at a palatable solution. The ADOPTING COUPLE's feelings ,similarly,cannot be ignored.After all,they are providing the support and home which is so badly needed to place the child in.That said,the best interests of the CHILD must take priority.Thank God,we all have clearly agreed that and spoken with one voice. I am no expert in this field but have only said what I honestly felt as a concerned member of the community.Just praying this matter is resolved satisfactorily at the earliest possible and this young child afforded the opportunity to start a more secure life soon. Sonoo Malkani
  • Score: -7

9:30am Wed 5 Feb 14

ipsofacto says...

@Sonoo Malkani

You say:

"Every single adoption must have its own set of UNIQUE circumstances. It seems fair that the authorities should judge on the merits of each one---keeping the CHILD's interests uppermost"

I agree with you but I want to know if you believe that the social workers involved have *not* considered this particular case on its merits. I believe that they have. I also believe that this adoption has been suspended by *politicians* who are scared to offend the homophobic religious sensitivities of a tiny minority of people. And I thought that Brent was supposed to be the loony borough.
@Sonoo Malkani You say: "Every single adoption must have its own set of UNIQUE circumstances. It seems fair that the authorities should judge on the merits of each one---keeping the CHILD's interests uppermost" I agree with you but I want to know if you believe that the social workers involved have *not* considered this particular case on its merits. I believe that they have. I also believe that this adoption has been suspended by *politicians* who are scared to offend the homophobic religious sensitivities of a tiny minority of people. And I thought that Brent was supposed to be the loony borough. ipsofacto
  • Score: 3

1:11pm Thu 6 Feb 14

diligaf says...

does any one really care?
does any one really care? diligaf
  • Score: 0

3:43pm Thu 6 Feb 14

DJFearRoss says...

"COMMUNITY FEELINGS have also to be taken into the equation ,in the interests of all concerned.----not just in the case of the Somalis but ALL our communities"

No. WE are one community, by stating that the Somalians are one community, English another, Muslim etc where does one draw the line?
This is the Harrow Times, is it not representing the people of Harrow, FULL STOP?

The fact of the matter is, the Council, by addressing the Somalian Community feelings' this girls adoption has now been suspended. This is NOT in the best interest of the child.
"COMMUNITY FEELINGS have also to be taken into the equation ,in the interests of all concerned.----not just in the case of the Somalis but ALL our communities" No. WE are one community, by stating that the Somalians are one community, English another, Muslim etc where does one draw the line? This is the Harrow Times, is it not representing the people of Harrow, FULL STOP? The fact of the matter is, the Council, by addressing the Somalian Community feelings' this girls adoption has now been suspended. This is NOT in the best interest of the child. DJFearRoss
  • Score: 4

4:07pm Fri 7 Feb 14

Sonoo Malkani says...

DJ FearRoss has the right to feel what he/she feels just as much as I have.We are ONE LARGE COMMUNITY of HARROVIANS made up of innumerable communities from diverse backgrounds,cultures etc .That is an undeniable fact.One that we some of us are really proud of but it seems not all.That too,in a democracy is a choice each one makes for themselves.

By the way,we are all free to have our opinions and express them like the one above.No point getting steamed up!
DJ FearRoss has the right to feel what he/she feels just as much as I have.We are ONE LARGE COMMUNITY of HARROVIANS made up of innumerable communities from diverse backgrounds,cultures etc .That is an undeniable fact.One that we some of us are really proud of but it seems not all.That too,in a democracy is a choice each one makes for themselves. By the way,we are all free to have our opinions and express them like the one above.No point getting steamed up! Sonoo Malkani
  • Score: -6

8:51pm Fri 7 Feb 14

as2009 says...

The community have protested because the child has an extended family who are fighting to take care of her and her siblings. Yet harrow council think its Ok to dismiss these people and champion.a couple who can never be this child's real family. As far as the couple are concerned they should be in a position to understand that as much as they want to adopt, the child is wanted and loved by her relatives. Its due to the fact that the council are trying to rush and get another adoption under their belt that the Somali community had to came together to be heard. The biological parent is not able to stand up against the council so asked for her communities help. Though she may not be able to care for her kids she is still a human and wishes for her extended family to help raise them. And not all Somali people are on benefits or uneducated, so don't stereotype and judge. I hope this child and her siblings remain within their own community.
The community have protested because the child has an extended family who are fighting to take care of her and her siblings. Yet harrow council think its Ok to dismiss these people and champion.a couple who can never be this child's real family. As far as the couple are concerned they should be in a position to understand that as much as they want to adopt, the child is wanted and loved by her relatives. Its due to the fact that the council are trying to rush and get another adoption under their belt that the Somali community had to came together to be heard. The biological parent is not able to stand up against the council so asked for her communities help. Though she may not be able to care for her kids she is still a human and wishes for her extended family to help raise them. And not all Somali people are on benefits or uneducated, so don't stereotype and judge. I hope this child and her siblings remain within their own community. as2009
  • Score: 0

7:46am Sun 9 Feb 14

DJFearRoss says...

as2009 wrote:
The community have protested because the child has an extended family who are fighting to take care of her and her siblings. Yet harrow council think its Ok to dismiss these people and champion.a couple who can never be this child's real family. As far as the couple are concerned they should be in a position to understand that as much as they want to adopt, the child is wanted and loved by her relatives. Its due to the fact that the council are trying to rush and get another adoption under their belt that the Somali community had to came together to be heard. The biological parent is not able to stand up against the council so asked for her communities help. Though she may not be able to care for her kids she is still a human and wishes for her extended family to help raise them. And not all Somali people are on benefits or uneducated, so don't stereotype and judge. I hope this child and her siblings remain within their own community.
@as2009
This is incorrect. The Somalian community only got together AFTER they heard about the Lesbian community NOT before.

Yes, it is true not all Somalians are on benefits or uneducated, but the MAJORITY are. These are the things the Somalian community should focus their energy on rather than these issues which stopped an innocent girl being given a loving couple.

http://news.bbc.co.u
k/2/hi/uk_news/wales
/south_east/4673846.
stm
[quote][p][bold]as2009[/bold] wrote: The community have protested because the child has an extended family who are fighting to take care of her and her siblings. Yet harrow council think its Ok to dismiss these people and champion.a couple who can never be this child's real family. As far as the couple are concerned they should be in a position to understand that as much as they want to adopt, the child is wanted and loved by her relatives. Its due to the fact that the council are trying to rush and get another adoption under their belt that the Somali community had to came together to be heard. The biological parent is not able to stand up against the council so asked for her communities help. Though she may not be able to care for her kids she is still a human and wishes for her extended family to help raise them. And not all Somali people are on benefits or uneducated, so don't stereotype and judge. I hope this child and her siblings remain within their own community.[/p][/quote]@as2009 This is incorrect. The Somalian community only got together AFTER they heard about the Lesbian community NOT before. Yes, it is true not all Somalians are on benefits or uneducated, but the MAJORITY are. These are the things the Somalian community should focus their energy on rather than these issues which stopped an innocent girl being given a loving couple. http://news.bbc.co.u k/2/hi/uk_news/wales /south_east/4673846. stm DJFearRoss
  • Score: -2

9:24am Sun 9 Feb 14

ipsofacto says...

@as2009

Your post suggests that you are familiar with this case. I have four questions:

1) Are you suggesting that Harrow's social workers did not even bother to discuss the adoption with members of the girl's family? I would find it extraordinary that they had failed to do so.

2) DJFEarRoss suggests that the demonstration against the adoption was held only after it became known that the adopting parents were lesbian. Is that the case? If it is, then the demonstration was driven by hateful homophobia and those who took part in or supported the demonstration should be declared unfit to foster/adopt.

3) Demonstrators said that they thought it better that the child to be adopted should be placed within the Somali community. Could it be that the adopting lesbians are themselves Somali?

4) Can you be sure that, if the girl was adopted within the Somali community, that she would be placed in a home where there was at least one partner working so that the child would not be placed with a family that is currently, and will continue to be, reliant on state hand-outs? Children need role models and role models work for a living.
@as2009 Your post suggests that you are familiar with this case. I have four questions: 1) Are you suggesting that Harrow's social workers did not even bother to discuss the adoption with members of the girl's family? I would find it extraordinary that they had failed to do so. 2) DJFEarRoss suggests that the demonstration against the adoption was held only after it became known that the adopting parents were lesbian. Is that the case? If it is, then the demonstration was driven by hateful homophobia and those who took part in or supported the demonstration should be declared unfit to foster/adopt. 3) Demonstrators said that they thought it better that the child to be adopted should be placed within the Somali community. Could it be that the adopting lesbians are themselves Somali? 4) Can you be sure that, if the girl was adopted within the Somali community, that she would be placed in a home where there was at least one partner working so that the child would not be placed with a family that is currently, and will continue to be, reliant on state hand-outs? Children need role models and role models work for a living. ipsofacto
  • Score: 1

12:32pm Sun 9 Feb 14

as2009 says...

As a member of the community I am familiar with some points regarding this matter. Those who came forward have not been told of a reason why their application to foster/adopt were dismissed. The community came together because the child is wanted within her own community. It has no bearing whether a lesbian/gay/straight family wants her. Its purely because the council has not been fair to this community and are playing the homophobic card that the community are standing together. Why is it so hard to comprehend that we are trying to help ourselves and are driven to care for one of our own. DJFearRoss keeps banging on about the fact the we are mainly jobless,benefit seeking losers. I have a strong feeling you have some underlying hatred for Somali people. The main claiments for benefits in this country are those who are English, again the Majority of children in care are English. So let me reiterate my point, we are trying to care for our own. We have no desire to be homophobic. Again the Majority of Somali people I know work, pay taxes and care for their children without state hand outs.
As a member of the community I am familiar with some points regarding this matter. Those who came forward have not been told of a reason why their application to foster/adopt were dismissed. The community came together because the child is wanted within her own community. It has no bearing whether a lesbian/gay/straight family wants her. Its purely because the council has not been fair to this community and are playing the homophobic card that the community are standing together. Why is it so hard to comprehend that we are trying to help ourselves and are driven to care for one of our own. DJFearRoss keeps banging on about the fact the we are mainly jobless,benefit seeking losers. I have a strong feeling you have some underlying hatred for Somali people. The main claiments for benefits in this country are those who are English, again the Majority of children in care are English. So let me reiterate my point, we are trying to care for our own. We have no desire to be homophobic. Again the Majority of Somali people I know work, pay taxes and care for their children without state hand outs. as2009
  • Score: -2

1:37pm Sun 9 Feb 14

ipsofacto says...

@as2009

Fine. But you didn't answer the questions. Did this demonstration take place only AFTER it became known the family adopting the child were known to be lesbian? Are you suggesting that Harrow Social workers did not bother to get the opinions of the girl's family? How do you know that the lesbian couple involved are not themselves Somali?

And there is a new matter which arises from your post. You say

"Those who came forward have not been told of a reason why their application to foster/adopt were dismissed"

Whenever a family apply to adopt they have to go through what some people find is a harrowing probe of what they see as their private lives. If an adopting family are not deemed suitable to be adoptive parents then they are usually *not* told of the reasons why. Have members of the Somali community applied in the usual way to become adopters within the London Borough of Harrow and have they been rejected because they did not meet the needs of children wanting to be placed within family units? Children are not commodities to be thrown anywhere. We have a duty to protect their best interests.

I remain absolutely convinced that members of the Somali community objected to the adoption only when they found out that the couple adopting are lesbians. Quite frankly, if that is so , it is a disgrace. This is 21st century Harrow. We do not tolerate sexism. We do not tolerate racism. We should not tolerate homophobia either. And if people do not like that then tough.
@as2009 Fine. But you didn't answer the questions. Did this demonstration take place only AFTER it became known the family adopting the child were known to be lesbian? Are you suggesting that Harrow Social workers did not bother to get the opinions of the girl's family? How do you know that the lesbian couple involved are not themselves Somali? And there is a new matter which arises from your post. You say "Those who came forward have not been told of a reason why their application to foster/adopt were dismissed" Whenever a family apply to adopt they have to go through what some people find is a harrowing probe of what they see as their private lives. If an adopting family are not deemed suitable to be adoptive parents then they are usually *not* told of the reasons why. Have members of the Somali community applied in the usual way to become adopters within the London Borough of Harrow and have they been rejected because they did not meet the needs of children wanting to be placed within family units? Children are not commodities to be thrown anywhere. We have a duty to protect their best interests. I remain absolutely convinced that members of the Somali community objected to the adoption only when they found out that the couple adopting are lesbians. Quite frankly, if that is so , it is a disgrace. This is 21st century Harrow. We do not tolerate sexism. We do not tolerate racism. We should not tolerate homophobia either. And if people do not like that then tough. ipsofacto
  • Score: 3

3:48pm Sun 9 Feb 14

harrow78 says...

God, I hate religion.
God, I hate religion. harrow78
  • Score: -1

4:59pm Sun 9 Feb 14

ipsofacto says...

@harrow78

Homophobia exists both within and outside of religious practice. It just so happens that, on this occasion, the homphobes involved are a group of medieval fundamentalists living within the margins of a warped culture.
@harrow78 Homophobia exists both within and outside of religious practice. It just so happens that, on this occasion, the homphobes involved are a group of medieval fundamentalists living within the margins of a warped culture. ipsofacto
  • Score: 2

5:32pm Sun 9 Feb 14

jackdaw says...

I would ask the community members for a statement that they do not indulge in homophobia or child abuse (female genital mutilation). Unless they can guarantee that they eschew these practices I would not entertain them as adoptees.

There have been no arrests for FGM. As a sign that they wsih to outlaw this practice perhaps they should provide the police with the names of people who are guilty of this crime so that they can be put before the courts.
I would ask the community members for a statement that they do not indulge in homophobia or child abuse (female genital mutilation). Unless they can guarantee that they eschew these practices I would not entertain them as adoptees. There have been no arrests for FGM. As a sign that they wsih to outlaw this practice perhaps they should provide the police with the names of people who are guilty of this crime so that they can be put before the courts. jackdaw
  • Score: 1

11:12pm Sun 9 Feb 14

DJFearRoss says...

@as2009

I NEVER said Somalians are losers! Do you now appear to have a hatred for English people?! I simply provided a statistic, it is not my opinion. Across Europe, not just the UK, Somalians have extremely high unemployment rates.

Over 80% of Somali-speaking pupils qualify for free school meals. In Waltham Forest, a borough in east London, home to nearly 4,000 Somalis, 73% live in households on benefits. More than 50% of British Somalis rent from local councils, the highest proportion of any foreign-born population. In nearby Tower Hamlets 2010 data showed that Somalis were twice as likely as white Britons to be behind with the rent. - The Economist - Aug 2013

I find it hard to believe that you have the facts about this case. Harrow council explained everything to the mother, then once they found out the child was going to a Lesbian, she claimed she didn't understand anything due to her poor English. (She even had an interpreter!)

Then a family member stepped forward, was assessed and rejected, like many. Keep in mind, the same has happened with her previous two children, who didn't go to family members.
@as2009 I NEVER said Somalians are losers! Do you now appear to have a hatred for English people?! I simply provided a statistic, it is not my opinion. Across Europe, not just the UK, Somalians have extremely high unemployment rates. Over 80% of Somali-speaking pupils qualify for free school meals. In Waltham Forest, a borough in east London, home to nearly 4,000 Somalis, 73% live in households on benefits. More than 50% of British Somalis rent from local councils, the highest proportion of any foreign-born population. In nearby Tower Hamlets 2010 data showed that Somalis were twice as likely as white Britons to be behind with the rent. - The Economist - Aug 2013 I find it hard to believe that you have the facts about this case. Harrow council explained everything to the mother, then once they found out the child was going to a Lesbian, she claimed she didn't understand anything due to her poor English. (She even had an interpreter!) Then a family member stepped forward, was assessed and rejected, like many. Keep in mind, the same has happened with her previous two children, who didn't go to family members. DJFearRoss
  • Score: 3

Comments are closed on this article.

click2find

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree