Tories claim new 'secret' allowance could cost taxpayers more than £65,000 (From Harrow Times)

starbright says...
3:05pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Furious! Council leader Cllr Idaikkaddar is nothing short of disgraceful, incompetent, and having seen some of the decisions he has taken, is far from strong enough to take on such a demanding and responsible role! He has already recently given to some of his 'friends' the position of portfolio asst at £2040 extra each per year. £65000 set aside to create new positions for his chums when they are not needed is b****y scandalous! Am I angry.... you bet I am, Harrow Council runs an old boys network....you scratch my back I'll scratch yours! Harrow Times and others, I am urging you all to show your contempt on here for this disgraceful behaviour of the Labour run Harrow Council! Please do not vote Labour at this Thursdays West Harrow by election!

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Nana says...
3:51pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Very sad that this inept opposition chooses to spread false information in spite of the fact that the truth has been highlighted. At the Cabinet meeting on 14th February Cllr Macleod-Cullinane asked a question about the new position and was given an answer. He chose to not listen in order to pursue his own agenda. The fact is, if a Portfolio Holder chooses to appoint an Advisor, the £6k will come from his or her Special Responsibility Allowance so there is no additional cost to the budget. The facts are not as interesting as a made up story. Starbright would have no basis for his unfair comments if Cllr Macleod-Cullinane did not provide a fig leaf of misinformation. Harrow deserves a better quality of Opposition. Mature, accurate in reporting facts and responsible.

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Abena says...
4:49pm Mon 18 Feb 13

What part of cost neutral does Cllr Barry Macleod-Cullinane not understand? If someone is receiving £19k and gives someone £6500k to do a part of the job how does that become £65 000 even if every Portfolio Holder chooses to appoint an Advisor? Even a primary school child would understand that the total spend remains the same. You know if you have 19 apples and give 6 and half to someone in the room, does this mean you have 25 and a half apples in the room or 19 apples?! If this is the level of competence in the Opposition, Harrow is better off with a Labour Administration that is working hard to make the best of the unfair cut in grant inflicted by the Tory-led Coalition.

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Barry Macleod-Cullinane says...
5:04pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Nana, according to the Council Leader, there could be 10 “Portfolio Advisers”, each paid £6,630. This new “Portfolio Adviser” job is created in the final sentence of paragraph 56 on page 121 of the Budget papers that went to Cabinet last week, but absolutely no information is provided as to what they’ll actually do to earn their £6,630 – especially as they can’t, by law, take any cabinet decisions. So, Nana, perhaps you could point out where residents can find the job description for your Leader’s new “Portfolio Advisers”?

Further, Nana, your claim that the “Portfolio Advisers” will be funded by a reduction of the relevant Portfolio Holder’s Special Responsibility Allowance (SRA) is apparently contradicted by the Budget papers. According to you, the Portfolio Holder who does all the work, who makes the decisions, and who is responsible if things go wrong will write a check giving a third of their own SRA to another councillor who doesn’t do anything and isn’t responsible to anyone. However, if that’s the case, why then does Schedule 1 on SRAs (on page 217, Appendix 14) clearly set out two DIFFERENT levels of SRA: one for Portfolio Holders (Band 6, £19,960) and one for the new “Portfolio Advisers” (Band 4, at £6,630)? Why doesn’t the Schedule create a new, joint “Portfolio Holder AND Portfolio Adviser” SRA?

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kiku5496 says...
5:48pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Here we go again Cllr Macleod - Cullinane jumping up and down and making allegations without thinking it through. This does not surprise me at all, after all his paymasters in Con-Dem coalition are after all setting the trend, Mr Gove comes to mind. Another reason Barry Macleod-Cullinane chooses not to understand the reasoning behind the Split in allowence is that he can not comprehand that perhaps two people may choose to work in cohesion. I invite all harrow resident to come to full council meetings and observe the pantomine presented by Barry Maccleod-Cullinane the deputy leader and Susan Hall the leader of the Tory group. Our residents deserve better respect then the behaviour presented by this councillors. Barry's problem is that he believes financial management is the perogative of the Conservative Group. If residents really studied and scrutinised the decisions taken by the former Conservative adminstration they would be truely shocked. The constant derogatory remarks about the present leader have to stop or perhaps these attacks are masked racism towards a certain group that makes up a large part of Harrows population, one only has to look at key decisions taken by the tory adminstrations in the past, the location of Krishna Avanti School comes to mind, it is in such a location that there is no room to expand. The application for the now famous Neasden temple in Northwick park grounds was fought against by tory councillors in harrow, I was working at a nearby private hospital and remember the painful vitriolics displayedand orchestrated by certain tories, now we have a Golf Course while Breant has a world famous landmark, yes some of us long memories and we are watching. It is high time Cllr Macleod-Cullinane put it in his pipe and smoked it.
Cll Krishna James

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Nana says...
5:52pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Barry Macleod-Cullinane wrote:
Nana, according to the Council Leader, there could be 10 “Portfolio Advisers”, each paid £6,630. This new “Portfolio Adviser” job is created in the final sentence of paragraph 56 on page 121 of the Budget papers that went to Cabinet last week, but absolutely no information is provided as to what they’ll actually do to earn their £6,630 – especially as they can’t, by law, take any cabinet decisions. So, Nana, perhaps you could point out where residents can find the job description for your Leader’s new “Portfolio Advisers”?

Further, Nana, your claim that the “Portfolio Advisers” will be funded by a reduction of the relevant Portfolio Holder’s Special Responsibility Allowance (SRA) is apparently contradicted by the Budget papers. According to you, the Portfolio Holder who does all the work, who makes the decisions, and who is responsible if things go wrong will write a check giving a third of their own SRA to another councillor who doesn’t do anything and isn’t responsible to anyone. However, if that’s the case, why then does Schedule 1 on SRAs (on page 217, Appendix 14) clearly set out two DIFFERENT levels of SRA: one for Portfolio Holders (Band 6, £19,960) and one for the new “Portfolio Advisers” (Band 4, at £6,630)? Why doesn’t the Schedule create a new, joint “Portfolio Holder AND Portfolio Adviser” SRA?

Barry, as you may remember from your time in Administration (although it is ages ago), reports are constructed with officer advice. The reason for questions is that you seek clarification which you did at the Cabinet meeting on 14 February. You were told that there is no increase in the SRA budget and that any appointment of a PHA is automatically followed by a reduction in that PH's SRA. I heard the answer. If you were in any doubt, we spoke after the meeting and I told you that if you still thought that there was a potential additional cost in the region of £65 000 then you had not listened. You have chosen to write a malicious story rather than use your position as Opposition Deputy Leader to give a well considered alternative view to the decisions being proposed. To say I am disappointed is an understatement. But then following your recent actions, I am not surprised.

[quote][p][bold]Barry Macleod-Cullinane[/bold] wrote: Nana, according to the Council Leader, there could be 10 “Portfolio Advisers”, each paid £6,630. This new “Portfolio Adviser” job is created in the final sentence of paragraph 56 on page 121 of the Budget papers that went to Cabinet last week, but absolutely no information is provided as to what they’ll actually do to earn their £6,630 – especially as they can’t, by law, take any cabinet decisions. So, Nana, perhaps you could point out where residents can find the job description for your Leader’s new “Portfolio Advisers”? Further, Nana, your claim that the “Portfolio Advisers” will be funded by a reduction of the relevant Portfolio Holder’s Special Responsibility Allowance (SRA) is apparently contradicted by the Budget papers. According to you, the Portfolio Holder who does all the work, who makes the decisions, and who is responsible if things go wrong will write a check giving a third of their own SRA to another councillor who doesn’t do anything and isn’t responsible to anyone. However, if that’s the case, why then does Schedule 1 on SRAs (on page 217, Appendix 14) clearly set out two DIFFERENT levels of SRA: one for Portfolio Holders (Band 6, £19,960) and one for the new “Portfolio Advisers” (Band 4, at £6,630)? Why doesn’t the Schedule create a new, joint “Portfolio Holder AND Portfolio Adviser” SRA?[/p][/quote]Barry, as you may remember from your time in Administration (although it is ages ago), reports are constructed with officer advice. The reason for questions is that you seek clarification which you did at the Cabinet meeting on 14 February. You were told that there is no increase in the SRA budget and that any appointment of a PHA is automatically followed by a reduction in that PH's SRA. I heard the answer. If you were in any doubt, we spoke after the meeting and I told you that if you still thought that there was a potential additional cost in the region of £65 000 then you had not listened. You have chosen to write a malicious story rather than use your position as Opposition Deputy Leader to give a well considered alternative view to the decisions being proposed. To say I am disappointed is an understatement. But then following your recent actions, I am not surprised. Nana

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Nana says...
6:02pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Barry, just to make sure you don't miss the point

SRA Band 4 = £6 630 for Portfolio Adviser (THE SRA TO BE PAID ONLY IF THERE IS AGREEMENT FROM THE LEADER AND RELEVANT CABINET MEMBER. IN SUCH AN EVENT THE ENTIRE SRA PAID TO THE PORTFOLIO ADVISER AT BAND 4 WILL BE DEDUCTED FROM THE SRA OF THE LEADER AT BAND 7 OR THE RELEVANT CABINET MEMBER AT BAND 6)
SRA Band 6 = £13,060 Deputy Leader with Portfolio Adviser & Cabinet Members with Portfolio Adviser
SRA Band 7 = £19,690 Deputy Leader without Portfolio Adviser & Cabinet Members without Portfolio Adviser

SRA Band 8 = £24,169 Leader with Portfolio Adviser

SRA Band 9 = £30,799 Leader without Portfolio Adviser

Hope this makes it clear to you that there is no proposal to increase the SRA budget by £65k+

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Barry Macleod-Cullinane says...
6:15pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Nana, so why doesn't Schedule 1 of Appendix 14, page 217 of the Cabinet Papers last week include the SRA Bands and amounts that you have listed?

It's rather unfortunate that last week your Cabinet colleagues and the Leader passed a Schedule for SRAs that only has 7 Bands; they didn't include the extra SRA bands that you've apparently only just thought of.

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Barry Macleod-Cullinane says...
6:16pm Mon 18 Feb 13

And, again, perhaps you could point Harrow residents to the published job description for the Leaders' 10 new "Portfolio Advisers"?

I'm sure it exists; so, where is it?

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Nana says...
6:22pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Barry Macleod-Cullinane wrote:
Nana, so why doesn't Schedule 1 of Appendix 14, page 217 of the Cabinet Papers last week include the SRA Bands and amounts that you have listed?

It's rather unfortunate that last week your Cabinet colleagues and the Leader passed a Schedule for SRAs that only has 7 Bands; they didn't include the extra SRA bands that you've apparently only just thought of.

Barry I didn't just think of anything. it was obvious from the Leader's answer to you that the SRA bands need to be in place to reflect the thinking of the Administration. His reply was very clear - there will be no increase in the SRA budget - any payment will come from the existing Portfolio Holder's SRA. In case you have forgotten the Leader's answer to you, among other things he said: "If there was an appointment to this role it will not cost tax payer anything/no change to the existing Budget since the Portfolio Holder who requests an adviser will have to share the amount from his existing allowance. "
So you now realise Officers should have included the new bands - well potted, congratulations! Perhaps, next time before accusing the Administration of secret payments, you will check your facts

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Barry Macleod-Cullinane says...
6:27pm Mon 18 Feb 13

These extra Bands were NOT included in Schedule 1; so will you be tabling the amendment to adjust the Leader's first Budget or will he?

And, when will there be a job description explaining how 10 SRAs of £6,630 of public funds will actually be spent?

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harrowKing says...
6:38pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Reading the posts above, it appears that Cllr Macleod – Cullinane who is in a habit of making out of context political points, has issued a misleading statement yet again.
Is he not the same Cllr Macleod – Cullinane who held two portfolios at the same time during the Tory administration despite being a full time employee of the London Councils. Was he not drawing special allowances as well? What value for money he was giving?
Reading his long writing, the one word that comes to mind is 'scaremongering'!
Is he not the same Cllr who co-signed a scaremongering letter ‘New free school will be nightmare’ re Hindu school which unnecessarily scared the future parents of the Hindu school by the alarm that there are “localised gang and criminal activity” in the area.
By now he should be working out a shadow budget for the benefit of local people rather than scoring petty political points.

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starbright says...
7:53pm Mon 18 Feb 13

HarrowKing give up!
kiku5496/Cllr Krishna James....I would be very careful with your accusatory comments about racism. I would also suggest residents may like to come to Council meetings if they were highlighted more clearly on the Council's website. In terms of derogatory marks....'pot calling kettle' springs to mind, having read many personal attacks on Susan Hall!
Nana please point me in the direction of where I can scrutinise Portfolio holders, advisers and assts, their defined roles, and breakdown of payments out of the SRA, and a detailed analysis of why we need this? Also ultimately whose pocket does it come out of to pay these allowances? Furthermore can someone tell me where I can find how many Harrow Cllrs have taken up pensions in Harrow Council, subsidised by us the taxpayers? And Cllrs are supposed to work for us what a joke!

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harrowKing says...
7:53pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Are you getting ready for big defeat on Friday, Mr Zeid - keep cool and try not to be hysteric - try Hatch end next time!

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pravinshah1 says...
7:58pm Mon 18 Feb 13

It is good that the opposition deputy leader has been allowed to make a solo press release. However, what is not good is that he has misused his freedom to create a mess by reporting misleading information which has rightly attracted robust challenges.

It is rather boring to see that he has lost the plot in his lengthy and disorientated argument – as usual, it is difficult to see what he is try to say or perhaps he is just hoping to stir-up things to deflect from the opposition’s inability in budgeting .

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Jeremy Zeid says...
8:04pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Well well well, it's Labour Councillor Krishna James playing the RACE CARD AGAIN.

You tried to pull that stunt on me when I was on Council and had to apologise.

You denied it, despite Cllrs Paul Scott and Chris Noyce HEARING YOU spit out that almost TOURETTES response that you have to everything "racist".

DO GROW UP. It is YOU who are sowing the seeds of hate and discord, not me. THAT is racism, dividing the community for your own personal gain. The National Socialists and the Communists were very good at it, Labour have learned a lot from them.

Socialism, the politics of envy and division. GROW UP CLLR JAMES, you are getting not just boring, but tiresome and OFFENSIVE.

Make tha taccusation against me ever again and you will pay off my mortgage and add to my pension fund. UNDERSTAND.

Now GROW UP.

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Harrow Alan says...
8:25pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Let me see if I've got this right. The council wants to make a new job to give to ten councillors and will pay them over six grand a year. No job description exists for this job.

According to "Nana" this will be paid for by other councillors, who already have jobs which out rank the new jobs, giving up some of the money they recieve for doing those jobs. Except it looks like it's not clear how they can do that, if I've understood the back and forth above.

Whatever the goal was with this thing, I don't think it could sound more open to abuse and confusion if it tried. Councillors giving lots of jobs to each other and dividing up the money just sound good, whether it ends up costing us more or not.

I would also ask what qualifies these other councillors to get paid to advise each other anyway?

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Harrow Alan says...
8:27pm Mon 18 Feb 13

That should have said "just doesn't sound good" at the end of the third paragraph.

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pravinshah1 says...
10:03pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Mr Zaid, I am the same Pravin Shah and let me tell you that you do not know anything about me so stop making judgements on some things you do not understand. You need to know that making such accusations can lead you to a disastrous end.

Your comment “The London Borough of Harrow, twinned with Pyongyang” and “But let's look at waht is happening here in New-Zimbabwe Harrow” above also says a lot about you. You cannot even spell or write proper grammar.

You stood as Conservative candidate in Kenton East and lost; now you stand as UKIP candidate in Harrow West. I wonder why BMP does not put candidates against any UKIP candidates. Does that not say a lot about you?

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harrowKing says...
10:25pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Mr Zeid, a defeated politician, perhaps watched too much ‘Batman & Robin’ and internalised the language and style:
“Holy haberdashery, Batman! – Robin”; “Holy demolition, Batman! – Robin”; “Instead of a SNEEZE, I've caught YOU, COLD! – Batman”
The 'Bateman & Robin' was a very bad influence of the English language!
He is helpfully exposing the true UKIP in many ways!

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harrowKing says...
10:28pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Typo: 'bad influence on the English ...'

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Nana says...
11:37pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Jeremy, Jeremy - your ranting is disgraceful. Frankly I am disappointed as I thought you were better than that. Rather than personal attacks against Krishna & others, stick to the facts. Just because I am the Deputy Mayor does not mean that I cease to be an elected representative or that I give up my right to have an opinion or point out when the Deputy Leader of the Opposition has his facts wrong. The Portfolio Holder Adviser will not cost Harrow residents any more - fact. What Barry did in scaremongering is disgraceful. We need a better quality of Opposition - fact. For your information, I am the Secretary of the Labour Group and it is in that capacity that I am pointing out that the Deputy Leader of the Opposition has his facts wrong.

If a Portfolio Holder appoints a Portfolio Holder Adviser, his Special Responsibiilty Allowance reduces by the amount the Portfolio Holder Adviser gets - fact, budget neutral proposition. Instead of making a fuss over a non story, why doesn't the Opposition come up with an alternative budget? Or it just that they have no ideas? No imagination?

As for your complaints about leaflets - grow up. Fight the election on your vision & plans and may the best man or woman win.

A word of advice, residents hate, rudeness and disrespect. Just because you disagree with people does not mean you should lose your manners.

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Barry Macleod-Cullinane says...
11:55pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Nana, unfortunately, "the facts" contained in Labour's Budget documents are not the same "facts" as you keep posting.

The Budget papers make clear in Schedule 1 of Appendix 14 that there are two different SRAs for two different roles, not a single shared SRA covering and funding both roles.

Further, the main Budget report at paragraph 56 makes clear that a new role, that of "Portfolio Adviser" is being established. The report does not suggest in any way that this role - and responsibilities and SRA - is shared with that of the Portfolio Holder.

Lastly, perhaps you could point me to the "facts" of the new Portfolio Advisers' job descriptions? Where in the Budget papers is the explanation of the new role and the job description?

Far from scaremongering, this looks increasingly like £65,000 of taxpayers' money being divvied-up to reward the Labour Party's payroll vote, with no explanation or description of how it will benefit Harrow's residents.

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kiku5496 says...
11:57pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Mr Zeid you may call it the race card, but then by the nature of your response you do not have a capacity for analysis. Your response about me suffering from Tourettes sums up your lack of understanding and abuse of the real sufferers. Contrary to your claim about me calling you a racist, If you had bothered to hear the clarification, I had said your comments ' verged on racism'. Im sure you wouldl be the first to shout racism if I said anything about you. The truth was that my By-election win in 2008 pushed the Tories to the 3rd place and because of that you a hard core of your colleagues made my life difficult in my first year, by victimising me at every oppertunity. It came as a surprise to you when I stood up for myself.I suggest Mr Zeid you are a very bad loser and now that the Tories have left you out together with some other loyal party members to represent them, you are burning up........It is understandable because you did work hard for them and are still supporting their behaviour.

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Nana says...
12:00am Tue 19 Feb 13

Barry, you sought clarification at Cabinet and were given the true position but you chose to go with your scaremongering. If reports do not properly reflect the thinking of the Administration, you need to take it up with the Head of Paid Service, that is if you remember how things work. Councillors ideas and policies are translated into reports by Officers.

Instead of wasting so much energy on a non story, could you provide an alternative budget? The people of Harrow need to know what, if anything, you would do differently. Or is just that you have no ideas?

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Barry Macleod-Cullinane says...
12:08am Tue 19 Feb 13

Except that the reports - especially the Budget - should reflect and articulate the views of the Administration.

When I was on Cabinet, between 2008-2010, reports would go in draft form to their respective Portfolio Holders to read, comment on and amend. Reports would then go, again in draft form, to Cabinet briefing to ensure support from the whole Cabinet and the Leader. Finally, they would be published and taken to Cabinet.

Are you seriously telling us that the Leader and his Cabinet colleagues didn't read or check or amend their own Budget before publication?

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starbright says...
12:54am Tue 19 Feb 13

What is it on here Cllrs only respond to other Cllrs, are the rest of us unworthy of answers? I am sick to the back teeth of Cllrs only ever appearing to have a political pop at each other,and behaving in a way that belongs on a school playground.

What is shameful is that not one Cllr or the Council released a statement condemning the severity of Cllr Gates disgusting activities! Speaks volumes about most of you, hold your heads in shame!!!!!

The truth is I could not care less who runs the council only that it is run properly, and with the residents best interests at heart! The present shower are raising council tax, even though the Govt were going to give them a rebate to freeze it this year, and Harrow made well over a million in investments. We now have the 3rd highest Council tax in London! They have also overspent 3 million on Capita for a failed IT system, where as Hillingdon have saved 1.5 million by using Google. Cllr Reka Shah and Cllr Choudhary never did resign over the Havs scandal, an ex schools director who overspent 6.3 million of taxpayers money,the list goes on and on.

If you ask too many questions, especially under the FOI act the Council has and will shut you down, and refuse any more requests. Cllrs are told to back off, and have done if a resident gets too close to the truth!

The Council were extremely quick to respond to this today, probably because there is a by election this week, and need to protect their interests.

The only person that appears to have the b***s to say it how it is, and give inside information along the way is Jeremy Zeid. I do not know him, but maybe the rest of you need to be less defensive, and more honest with us the tax paying residents.

The Council need to be more transparent and less secretive, and some Cllrs need to work a **** sight harder in favour of the service users, instead of toeing the Council line.

Harrow has turned into a filthy dumping ground, Right move last year voted us in the top 10 of the worst places in Britain to live. If I was ashamed of this, so should the rest of you be! Clean up Harrow, and Harrow Council and Cllrs clean up your acts!

What is it on here Cllrs only respond to other Cllrs, are the rest of us unworthy of answers? I am sick to the back teeth of Cllrs only ever appearing to have a political pop at each other,and behaving in a way that belongs on a school playground. What is shameful is that not one Cllr or the Council released a statement condemning the severity of Cllr Gates disgusting activities! Speaks volumes about most of you, hold your heads in shame!!!!! The truth is I could not care less who runs the council only that it is run properly, and with the residents best interests at heart! The present shower are raising council tax, even though the Govt were going to give them a rebate to freeze it this year, and Harrow made well over a million in investments. We now have the 3rd highest Council tax in London! They have also overspent 3 million on Capita for a failed IT system, where as Hillingdon have saved 1.5 million by using Google. Cllr Reka Shah and Cllr Choudhary never did resign over the Havs scandal, an ex schools director who overspent 6.3 million of taxpayers money,the list goes on and on. If you ask too many questions, especially under the FOI act the Council has and will shut you down, and refuse any more requests. Cllrs are told to back off, and have done if a resident gets too close to the truth! The Council were extremely quick to respond to this today, probably because there is a by election this week, and need to protect their interests. The only person that appears to have the b***s to say it how it is, and give inside information along the way is Jeremy Zeid. I do not know him, but maybe the rest of you need to be less defensive, and more honest with us the tax paying residents. The Council need to be more transparent and less secretive, and some Cllrs need to work a **** sight harder in favour of the service users, instead of toeing the Council line. Harrow has turned into a filthy dumping ground, Right move last year voted us in the top 10 of the worst places in Britain to live. If I was ashamed of this, so should the rest of you be! Clean up Harrow, and Harrow Council and Cllrs clean up your acts! starbright

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Jeremy Zeid says...
1:29am Tue 19 Feb 13

By the way PRAVIN SHAH of the Harrow Council for inJustice. NEVER EVER compare me or my party to the disgusting BNP. YOU KNOW my feeling and my reputation for fighting racism and discrimination.

Make that accusation again, and you will end up paying off my mortgage and for my retirement. BELIEVE IT.

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Jeremy Zeid says...
1:48am Tue 19 Feb 13

Thank you starbright. If I get in, I won't fall into the trap. Residents get told the truth even if it loses me votes. Sorry about the rant above, but I am heartily sick of the so-called "anti racists" who are the opposite, which is why I refer to them as "selectively multicultural".

What I can promise, is that if I find out anything that is corrupt or swastes our money, I will tell you.

If I am "gagged", I will tell you. If I am "leaned on", I will tell you.

Council is there to serve residents, not residents existing to serve and increasingly corrupt Council and bureaucracy.

The wosrt aspect is how it taints the good Councillors and the decent workers and public servants, while the corrupt apparatchiks blame everyone else.

As I wrote above, I expect considerable invective. I'm used to it. They will get far, far worse than they can ever give me. the worst I have ever done, is received a couple of parking tickets, there is nothing else, pretty boring really.

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Jeremy Zeid says...
2:01am Tue 19 Feb 13

BTW starbright, Harrow Councillors do not get any pension, unlike some other boroughs. Once you're out, that's it.

The problem is tha twhile there are some really decent and hard working councillors, it only takes a few corrupt or incompetent ones to drag down the whole edifice.

If I get my way, only those who are competent and have something to give to the Borough, rather than just being party hacks, will be allowed to run.

I stated this when I spoke at UKIP conference last October. As Harrow Chairman and Coordinator, I am determined to drive this through.

I am in this for the serious business of getting Harrow back on its feet, not as a party political plaything, and always was.
My worry at the moment is the behaviour and statements, the lack of empathy, by someone who is about to become the Mayor, our First Citizen.

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Nana says...
2:36am Tue 19 Feb 13

Thanks Jeremy, your logic is outstanding! By pointing out that the story is misleading, I show a lack of empathy? You never cease to amaze me.

Is it the fact that I am in line to become Mayor that bothers you? Am I not allowed a point of view? Do you remember the old saying "For evil to prosper, it is only necessary that good men (and let's not forget women!)do nothing"

As Secretary of the Labour Group, it was my duty to correct the misleading information being peddled as truth.

If you are in " the serious business of getting Harrow back on its feet", you will rise above name calling and deal with the issues

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Nana says...
2:36am Tue 19 Feb 13

Thanks Jeremy, your logic is outstanding! By pointing out that the story is misleading, I show a lack of empathy? You never cease to amaze me.

Is it the fact that I am in line to become Mayor that bothers you? Am I not allowed a point of view? Do you remember the old saying "For evil to prosper, it is only necessary that good men (and let's not forget women!)do nothing"

As Secretary of the Labour Group, it was my duty to correct the misleading information being peddled as truth.

If you are in " the serious business of getting Harrow back on its feet", you will rise above name calling and deal with the issues

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pravinshah1 says...
7:48am Tue 19 Feb 13

By the way Jeremy Zeid, I NEVER EVER compared you or your party to BNP. What I said was “I wonder why BMP does not put candidates against any UKIP candidates.” Nobody has called you a RACIST. It seems that you do not have a clue of simple English. You may have a guilty complex. Anytime you want to take me up legally, I will oblige you.

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Anthony Harrow says...
8:20am Tue 19 Feb 13

Yada Yada Yad this is more like a council meeting at the end of the day

ALL POLETITICIANS ARE UNDER WORKED AND OVERPAID

They never listen to what the people in general want

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Jeremy Zeid says...
8:25am Tue 19 Feb 13

Mr Shah. Please do not presume to play silly word games with me. Any court of Law would see the clear implications.

As for you Nana, you would be well advised not to involve yourself in this unseemly and offensive spat.

However you dissemble or twist, there have been veiled threats and accusations here that any half decent lawyer would jump all over, likewise an auditor over the budget.

Finally as deputy Mayor, may I also advise that you have a little chat with Cllr James that she is currently on very very thin legal ice, and it isn't caused by "Global warming".

She would be well advised to have cup of tea and reflect on the racist nuclear bomb detonator that she is currently hitting with a sledgehammer and it won't be affecting me.

I am sick and fed up with these tedious and offensive "race games" Pack it in, or I will do it for you. This is currently a piece of friendly advice.

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pravinshah1 says...
8:26am Tue 19 Feb 13

MR Jeremy Zeid, just to add to the above, stop bullying people like me with your comments “Make that accusation again, and you will end up paying off my mortgage and for my retirement. BELIEVE IT.”

You are the one to worry as you call others CORRUPT and HYPOCRITES without any evidence. You need to GROW UP.

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pravinshah1 says...
8:32am Tue 19 Feb 13

By the way Jeremy Zeid, as said before, it seems that you do not have a clue of simple English. May be you should go back to school.

Any time you want to take me up legally, I will oblige you.

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Jeremy Zeid says...
8:39am Tue 19 Feb 13

End of thread. You cannot argue with closed minds who think they are just sooooo clever, so superior. Round and round and round, like a dog chasing and biting its own tail. Argue amongst yourselves. In the case of Davidx/harrowKing/Ak
htar, talk to and answer yourself.

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pravinshah1 says...
10:20am Tue 19 Feb 13

Jeremy Zeid has nothing sensible to say. He is just a bully who is still attaching himself to the Tories but is standing in West Harrow as a UKIP. What a HYPOCRITE.

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pravinshah1 says...
11:20am Tue 19 Feb 13

Jeremy Zeid, you are certainly not a moral arbiter for the not putting own budget Tory group who only selects candidates for by-election who are "YES" person to the UNJUST Tory leader. Is that why you decided to join UKIP?

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SeaBee says...
11:24am Tue 19 Feb 13

It would appear that the creation of the role of Portfolio Holder advisor has some interesting implications.

However funded, they would appear to be employees of the Council and as such the anti-corruption provisions of the Council's employment practices need to be brought to bear.

As I understand it, all jobs should be the subject of open invitation/public advertising. The interviews should be conducted by an independent panel which should include a member of the Council's HR team. Prospective employees should declare any relationship between themselves and any Councillor, officer or employee. Any Councillor, officer or employee of the council is ineligible to sit on the panel if any relationship exists between themselves and any of the candidates.

Can we, the electorate, be assured that the Council's normal employment practices will be followed?

It has been argued that as the salary for the new post will not result in an increase in costs as there will be a concomitant reduction in the payment to the portfolio holder. This ignores the phenomenon that additional employees attract costs like a cow-pat attracts flies. For there to be no increase in costs would require the employee to not require office space or back-up services and will not claim expenses. I would suggest that this is an extremely unlikely scenario.

Finally, the whole exercise would seem to be a badly-disguised attempt to politicise public servants which was so successfully engineered at a national level by the Labour Government under Blair.

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Paul from iharrow.com says...
11:53am Tue 19 Feb 13

I've just had a quick look - didn't the Conservatives have just nine Portfolio Holders, whereas Labour have ten? Doesn't this mean that it's currently costing nearly £20k more than it used to? Why the change?

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jackdaw says...
12:02pm Tue 19 Feb 13

The voters of West Harrow must be stunned that an election for a Councillor in their area has caused the political parties to delve into the ways in which they and the opposition behave.

Let us hope that GawnGate was the warning to all parties to ensure their Councillors are above reproach.

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harrowKing says...
2:25pm Tue 19 Feb 13

Well done, Mr Shah! This is the right way to deal with him and alike - like any bullies, he ran fast when confronted!
Perhaps by now Mr Zeid is painting a wall for a 'multi-cultural' customer - hope he has no objection to be paid by someone like you, Mr Shah!

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starbright says...
2:27pm Tue 19 Feb 13

As I suspected only person to respond to my questions is Jeremy Zeid. The other Cllrs posting on here have not responded......as I said before only in it for themselves! I am a resident and service user, and in case it escaped your notice, as Cllrs you are duty bound to answer any questions I may have, obviously as usual you cannot be bothered! Instead your concerns mostly appear to be attacking Mr Zeid from all directions! Proves my earlier point.....playground behaviour!

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Jeremy Zeid says...
2:54pm Tue 19 Feb 13

As it happens, While labour is squabbling and blaming it all on the "cuts", the "Tories", the unseasonably warm weather, the cold weather, sunspots, the "lack of resources" and all of the usual twaddle, I have just sorted out a long running problem in that one resident had their bin chewed up by the dustcart and had been told it would be several weeks to get a replacement.

THAT is what being a Ward Councillor is about. Not looking to get on the Civic Centre gravy train for no effort. An assistant position or SRA (Special Responsibility Allowance) is privilege that must be earned and that the member must deliver.

Where are the West Harrow Councillors? One resigned, One disappeared into hyperspace, while the other only seems to appear if there is an election.

I am always (as far as possible), around for residents and always have been. If you accept an allowance paid by the taxpayer, you serve the TAXPAYERS. Anything else is fluff.

The same applies to those elected as MPs. Some posturing is OK, but the childish behaviour and the low grade of discussion of some makes me wonder if they ever left the 6th Form.

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harrowKing says...
2:58pm Tue 19 Feb 13

Mr Shah, luck is on your side - read this!
Standard 24 reports: Race row looms as UKIP Wisbech candidate blames Conservatives and Lib Dems for allowing “free loading immigrants” into the country: By John Elworthy , February 19, 2013 2:29 PM
(http://www.wisbechs
tandard.co.uk/news/r
ace_row_looms_as_uki
p_wisbech_candidate_
blames_conservatives
_and_lib_dems_for_al
lowing_free_loading_
immigrants_into_the_
country_1_1940141 )
A WISBECH UKIP candidate for a Cambridgeshire County Council seat claimed today that Conservatives and Liberal Democrats were to blame for allowing “free loading immigrants” into the country.

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Jeremy Zeid says...
3:07pm Tue 19 Feb 13

I see that the harrowKing/Davidx/Ak

htar multiple personality is still tring to play the RACE CARD. Sorry schizoid, but you and Mr Shah do not have the monopoly on cultural issue, nor can you tar me with that brush.

I can make some very damaging and true accusations of the antics of several people across the community, who are the real racists.

You know the type, just like YOU, who don't want to stop it, as otherwise you are OUT OF A JOB.

Why anyone listens to you I cannot fathom. Maybe they like the ranting and rabble-rousing so as to engage in a little REVERSE RACISM, because in your tiny brains, racism and hatred only work in one direction.

Racism is racism, end of story, and if you reall cannot understans wha tI have said, then it is YOU who are the problems, the enemies of harmony and of free speech to assuage your pathetic egeos, and hang everyone else caught in the fallout.

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harrowKing says...
4:41pm Tue 19 Feb 13

And UKIP's record is ....??
And is this not the case that 'a man is known by the company he keeps'!!
Go and cry somewhere else and get ready for the Friday big defeat - UKIP has no place in Harrow! Most probably, even your mates who hang around here wouldn't vote UKIP. You could always try Hatch End, though!

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Harrow Rani says...
4:56pm Tue 19 Feb 13

I can see why Harrow is in such disarray. Reading these posts from our Councillors makes for an interesting insight into the dirty politics and mud slinging that passes for acceptable behaviour amongst civilised people. The accusations, the defensive language, the truths and the untruths make a very worrying read, Pulling out race cards, accusatory comments about misrepresentations, and threats of legal action are just too childish to pass for politics. When did a local paper become the right mode of communication between opposing Councillors? Isnt that what your Council / cabinet meetings are for? Didn't your mothers tell you about not airing your dirty laundry in public? In amongst their point scoring these Councillors have proved that Starbright is right. Not one of you thought this person worthy of a response despite him/her repeatedly asking you to do so. And so, we must conclude that none of you give a flying fig about the people who you are supposed to serve, just as long as you can have a public slanging match, your hearts and minds will be clear. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. We may not always like or agree with what Jeremy Zeid has to say, but I have more respect for him than any of you other Councillors who have used this debate for personal gain. I personally hope Jeremy Zeid does win on Thursday. At least I have the confidence that he will stir things up a little bit, hold The counci to account, and not allow the residents of Harrow to be run roughshod over. In him there is a modicum of honesty and decency which sadly cannot be applied to a majority of the Councillors who mercilessly bully and malign this man. It shows you up for being the bullies and cowards I'm afraid and not the other way round as asserted by some of you.. And finally, may I suggest that these very Councillors who have commented earlier, continue to pay respect to the people in the Borough by doing us the honour of reading our posts on this site regularly and responding when asked to, even if the subject matter does not benefit you personally

I can see why Harrow is in such disarray. Reading these posts from our Councillors makes for an interesting insight into the dirty politics and mud slinging that passes for acceptable behaviour amongst civilised people. The accusations, the defensive language, the truths and the untruths make a very worrying read, Pulling out race cards, accusatory comments about misrepresentations, and threats of legal action are just too childish to pass for politics. When did a local paper become the right mode of communication between opposing Councillors? Isnt that what your Council / cabinet meetings are for? Didn't your mothers tell you about not airing your dirty laundry in public? In amongst their point scoring these Councillors have proved that Starbright is right. Not one of you thought this person worthy of a response despite him/her repeatedly asking you to do so. And so, we must conclude that none of you give a flying fig about the people who you are supposed to serve, just as long as you can have a public slanging match, your hearts and minds will be clear. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. We may not always like or agree with what Jeremy Zeid has to say, but I have more respect for him than any of you other Councillors who have used this debate for personal gain. I personally hope Jeremy Zeid does win on Thursday. At least I have the confidence that he will stir things up a little bit, hold The counci to account, and not allow the residents of Harrow to be run roughshod over. In him there is a modicum of honesty and decency which sadly cannot be applied to a majority of the Councillors who mercilessly bully and malign this man. It shows you up for being the bullies and cowards I'm afraid and not the other way round as asserted by some of you.. And finally, may I suggest that these very Councillors who have commented earlier, continue to pay respect to the people in the Borough by doing us the honour of reading our posts on this site regularly and responding when asked to, even if the subject matter does not benefit you personally Harrow Rani

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Jeremy Zeid says...
5:05pm Tue 19 Feb 13

Harrow Rani. Thank you.

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pravinshah1 says...
9:52pm Tue 19 Feb 13

Jeremy bully HYPOCRITE Zaid, no one needs to tar you with a brush as you are tarred anyway.

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harrowKing says...
10:09pm Tue 19 Feb 13

So my Harrow Rani is back – perhaps with full hair perm! ‘mercilessly bully and malign this man’ – rightly so. This man deserves and is rightly getting a taste of his own medicine and that is how he is going to be treated from now on! Who he thinks he is!

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Jeremy Zeid says...
10:31pm Tue 19 Feb 13

Oh harrow'kingbleedin'n
uisance, and there were YOU accusing OTHERS of being "bullies", you and that dunderhead from the HCiJ.

Pot, kettle and black spring to mind.

What a MORON, what a HYPOCRITE,.

You are examples of EXACTLY what I described earlier, selectively tolerant. One-way anti-racists. Only accepting what YOU agree with. Freedom of speech as long as it's YOUR speech.

Damned by your own actions.

That would explain why some malignant poisonous TOAD, had one of my earlier comments CENSORED.

I never censor postings, because I want the world to see what is being posted, the truth, the vile, vicious, intolerant bigots that you are. The delicious irony is that I didn't have to do anything. You damned yourselves by your own actions and everyone has noticed, everyone who reads this.

You can't hide from what is visible.

The comments from others demonstrate their disgust at you. Your threats and insults to and vilification of Harrow Rani whom I do not know, a member of the public, is a disgrace, especially from self-styled puffed up "community leaders" so-called "public" figures, PUBIC more like.

I really don't have to say anything, but truth be told, I just cannot resist such a huge juicy target, especially in your cases, a self inflicted one.

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starbright says...
11:38pm Tue 19 Feb 13

HarrowKing grow up you pathetic human being! If you are Cllr Akhtar resign now, you should be ashamed of personally attacking Harrow Rani who appears to be another Harrow resident/service user like myself! You have taken their quote out of context for your own vicious vindictive gain! Enough is enough, politics is for grown ups and not a weasley individual who hides behind different personas!

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Nana says...
3:00am Wed 20 Feb 13

starbright wrote:
HarrowKing grow up you pathetic human being! If you are Cllr Akhtar resign now, you should be ashamed of personally attacking Harrow Rani who appears to be another Harrow resident/service user like myself! You have taken their quote out of context for your own vicious vindictive gain! Enough is enough, politics is for grown ups and not a weasley individual who hides behind different personas!

Do you not see the irony of accusing someone of hiding behind a persona when you are using one yourself? Can you not argue on points without descending into name calling & personal attacks? Just because someone does not agree with you does not make them a pathetic human being.

Recent posts have moved away from the original misleading story, I wonder why.

Worth noting that replies have been to people who have identified themselves. For example kiku5496 told us she was Cllr Krishna James but others choose to hide behind personas, yet are surprised when others are cautious about engaging with them.

I hope future comments will be mature and respectful - the mark of a civilised debate is that we can disagree without resorting to abuse

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pravinshah1 says...
7:17am Wed 20 Feb 13

Jeremy bully HYPOCRITE Zeid, What a MORON, what a HYPOCRITE you are. You like to CENSORE others who tell the truth about the Tories and the Tory leadership. YOU accusing OTHERS of being "bullies" but as you can see from your postings, you are a selectively tolerant and accuse others of what the vile, vicious, intolerant bigots that you are.

Is it true what people here that one of your aunts is a member of BMP? Now don’t hide if you have a bit of courage to say the truth. Normally you try to be a moral arbiter for the not putting owns budget Tory group and the UNJUST Tory leader.

Why leave the Tories if you still support them.......you HYPOCRITE.

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Nana says...
10:18am Wed 20 Feb 13

Paul from iharrow.com wrote:
I've just had a quick look - didn't the Conservatives have just nine Portfolio Holders, whereas Labour have ten? Doesn't this mean that it's currently costing nearly £20k more than it used to? Why the change?

Paul, my information is different - the Tories had 14 at one point, a Harrow record. The figures I have are below

Tory Portfolio Holder Assistants
2008/09 - 13
2009/10 - 14

Labour Portfolio Holder Assistants
2010/11 – 8
2011/12 – 6
2012/13 - 10

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harrowKing says...
12:45pm Wed 20 Feb 13

A rani has to be respectful to a raja (king)!
Harrow Rani or a 12 stone male or whoever you are, you seems to be a part of a small group whose only purpose is to arrack Labour, actual or perceived! Why do you expected to be treated differently than the bullies like Mr Zeid who, like his friend Cllr Macleod-Cullinane, not only suffers from word diarrhea but also from seriously disoriented thinking.
It is a shame that the so called deputy leader of the opposition uses this arena as ‘question time’, making unsubstantiated accusations against fellow councillors, bringing the council’s image down!
Rumours are that he has been before Standards several times in the past few years!

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starbright says...
1:01pm Wed 20 Feb 13

Nana it is not in my nature to personally attack people, however HarrowKing has made many unjust comments on Harrow Times about other individuals on various subjects, and this is not the way a Cllr should behave. I accept your point, but my 'attacks' as you call it are not vitriolic as some of them have been by Cllrs themselves on here. As a Harrow Resident I do not hide behind anything, I merely use my username on here. People that are Cllrs like yourself, should use their real names like HarrowKing and his many other user names. We as the taxpayers need to know our money is being spent wisely, and expect for Cllrs to answer any questions we may have, and behave in a responsible way. You are a Cllr and you and many others on here have behaved in a disrepectful manner. You have not answered a question I put to you, and nor have the others, only Jeremy Zeid. You wonder why people get fired up because we are kept in the dark, and a lot of our money has been wasted by Harrow Council! At least I am big enough to apologise, and my intention is not to hurt anyone. But in the absence of you and others thinking us residents are not worthy of any replies/answers, and the conduct of some Cllrs above, is it any wonder sometimes Harrow Residents get cross?

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Nana says...
1:36pm Wed 20 Feb 13

starbright wrote:
Nana it is not in my nature to personally attack people, however HarrowKing has made many unjust comments on Harrow Times about other individuals on various subjects, and this is not the way a Cllr should behave. I accept your point, but my 'attacks' as you call it are not vitriolic as some of them have been by Cllrs themselves on here. As a Harrow Resident I do not hide behind anything, I merely use my username on here. People that are Cllrs like yourself, should use their real names like HarrowKing and his many other user names. We as the taxpayers need to know our money is being spent wisely, and expect for Cllrs to answer any questions we may have, and behave in a responsible way. You are a Cllr and you and many others on here have behaved in a disrepectful manner. You have not answered a question I put to you, and nor have the others, only Jeremy Zeid. You wonder why people get fired up because we are kept in the dark, and a lot of our money has been wasted by Harrow Council! At least I am big enough to apologise, and my intention is not to hurt anyone. But in the absence of you and others thinking us residents are not worthy of any replies/answers, and the conduct of some Cllrs above, is it any wonder sometimes Harrow Residents get cross?

starbright, I am glad that it is not in your nature to personally attack people. You cite past history as a reason for attacking HarrowKing. Personally I have not read any such posts so was surprised at the vitriol. It would be best if people confined themselves to the topic at hand. A misleading report was published - a correction has been put forward. Suddenly there are personal attacks. Councillors are residents who have put themselves forward to serve their community. The fact that they have been elected to serve does not give anyone license to abuse them. Allowances they are paid are simply recognition that public service takes away the opportunity to do other things. Those in Local Government receive the lowest level of allowance compared to GLA members or MPs.

Whilst I agree that Councillors should remain accountable, I believe that they are entitled to the same respect that other residents expect. There is a Jewish Proverb which rightly says "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar".

From a personal point of view, I prefer to know who I am engaging with, prefer it when people do not hide behind personas, if they want a reply from me.

Last but not least, a lot of comments are unnecessarily loaded as if you've made up your mind so it is difficult to engage. If you want real discussion, you will find Councillors will engage with you.

[quote][p][bold]starbright[/bold] wrote: Nana it is not in my nature to personally attack people, however HarrowKing has made many unjust comments on Harrow Times about other individuals on various subjects, and this is not the way a Cllr should behave. I accept your point, but my 'attacks' as you call it are not vitriolic as some of them have been by Cllrs themselves on here. As a Harrow Resident I do not hide behind anything, I merely use my username on here. People that are Cllrs like yourself, should use their real names like HarrowKing and his many other user names. We as the taxpayers need to know our money is being spent wisely, and expect for Cllrs to answer any questions we may have, and behave in a responsible way. You are a Cllr and you and many others on here have behaved in a disrepectful manner. You have not answered a question I put to you, and nor have the others, only Jeremy Zeid. You wonder why people get fired up because we are kept in the dark, and a lot of our money has been wasted by Harrow Council! At least I am big enough to apologise, and my intention is not to hurt anyone. But in the absence of you and others thinking us residents are not worthy of any replies/answers, and the conduct of some Cllrs above, is it any wonder sometimes Harrow Residents get cross?[/p][/quote]starbright, I am glad that it is not in your nature to personally attack people. You cite past history as a reason for attacking HarrowKing. Personally I have not read any such posts so was surprised at the vitriol. It would be best if people confined themselves to the topic at hand. A misleading report was published - a correction has been put forward. Suddenly there are personal attacks. Councillors are residents who have put themselves forward to serve their community. The fact that they have been elected to serve does not give anyone license to abuse them. Allowances they are paid are simply recognition that public service takes away the opportunity to do other things. Those in Local Government receive the lowest level of allowance compared to GLA members or MPs. Whilst I agree that Councillors should remain accountable, I believe that they are entitled to the same respect that other residents expect. There is a Jewish Proverb which rightly says "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar". From a personal point of view, I prefer to know who I am engaging with, prefer it when people do not hide behind personas, if they want a reply from me. Last but not least, a lot of comments are unnecessarily loaded as if you've made up your mind so it is difficult to engage. If you want real discussion, you will find Councillors will engage with you. Nana

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Nana says...
1:41pm Wed 20 Feb 13

Starbright, can I add that I have not knowingly behaved in a disrespectful manner. If I have, please point it out and I will apologise.

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Harrow Rani says...
1:49pm Wed 20 Feb 13

Nana if you read Harrow King and Pravin Shah's comments above you will see it is the Councillors who are being accusatory and making personal attacks which by your own admission are hostile and uncalled for. You cannot excuse your colleagues for their poor handling of this report and their vitriolic responsones to each other and indeed the Harrow residents like me and Starbright who just want answers not excuses or blame. Just see what Harrow King has posted in his last post to me and spot the misogynist bully..

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Tories claim new 'secret' allowance could cost taxpayers more than £65,000 (From Harrow Times)

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Harrow Borough council to introduce 'portfolio adviser' role while cutting valuable community services

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