Mosque shunned over request for dialogue (From Harrow Times)

Harrow united?! I've lived in Harrow for 24 years and all I see is the division growin as more people emmigrate to England and don't even speak the language.

I've never seen the muslims from the harrow mosque integrating with other members of the community.

Everyone in Harrow is divided into their own factions from muslims factions to polish factions. The division continues to grow and it will reach breaking point one day.

Blind Watchmaker, why do you keep moving from post to post? Why don't you debate with us, like we invited you to do so on the other pages that you made your disgusting comments?
You keep saying that everyone in Harrow is 'divided' but did you not read this article? The Harrow mosque leaders actively tried to REACH out and INTERACT.
Muslims hold inter-faith dialogue all the time, and Harrow Mosque itself - being right in the centre of Harrow - has not had any objections in its long history.

It seems you are the one with the problem.

"The Harrow mosque leaders actively tried to reach out and interact". I have read the definitive account of the life of the Great Prophet by Ibn Ishaq and the fine example (sic) he set, and I am aware of the history of Islamic "reaching out and interacting" over the centuries and more recently in this country. I have come to the sad conclusion that we can happily do without it.

SIOE have no shame in what they do.

@Blind Watchmaker
Harrow is a well integrated community. Bigots like you are obviously not going to feel at home in a place like Harrow, but that's your problem not ours.

Being named Gash he was obviously bullied mercilessly at school. That explains a lot of his behaviour.

He is to be pitied rather than condemned.

Within the next 10 years Islam will have a chokehold on this country and soon the planet.

Dear Sir (@Blind Watchmaker),
I am a muslim. When muslims come out of the masjid they talk to people whome they recognise and outside the mosque at that particular time when they leave the mosque it happens to be muslims.
But then us Muslims have neighbours who are not muslims, we chat to them and exchange gifts. And then us muslims we go to work where our colleagues are often non-muslims and we work as a team and have lunch together, we discuss, we joke.
When we have wedding, we have guests who are not muslims.

Further to this, the community in Harrow is quite wealthy, You will often find it is the wealthy ethnic population
(Muslims, Hindu, Sikh, Jewish) that exists and moves to Harrow, a community that gives a lot to the British economy.
Further you should ask yourself why Britain (gov and businesses) wants to be a centre of Islamic finance for Europe. It is because there are much benefit for the British economy for this.

I feel quite certain your nationalism and patriotism is no more then racism - this is not acceptable for any advanced ideological society.

Kind regards

Well done akhtar saab for your comments. You have set a perfect example of Islam can't comment more. You are right to a certain extent about boosting the british economy, more businesses open the more it will boost the economy hence Britain is of the main financial hub of world trading today

Islam teaches the superiority of good deeds over bad deeds. The uncertainty that many of us have is how Islam defines a “good deed”. Thousands of Muslims across the world openly celebrated 9/11 and one is left to wonder whether this was deemed to be a “good deed” or a “bad deed”. There will never be complete integration in this country, because for that to happen most people would have to want it, and they don’t. We are in a mess not of our making. And the (so called) right wing element of this country speaks for many who do not have a voice.

Just for a novelty change. It would be nice if the press would report the truth and stop whipping everyone up into a frenzy. I was one of the people who shook hands with the Iman and accepted his offer of dialogue. After we spoke for a few minutes, the police led him away and told him to go and wouldn't let anyone go to the mosque. So stop with your lies and complete fabrications and report the truth ok. Nobody has even bothered asking the Iman what happened at all, which just goes to prove that it's all designed just to whip up more divisions. It wouldn't suite your agenda just to have a simple explanation, you just had to stirr it up to be a racial thing. Sad. Some of these comments would be laughable if they weren't so sad and all from people that weren't even there, or spoke to the Iman. He was actualy a realy nice man and I would still extend my hand for dialogue. So all you false muslims that thrive on violence and trouble and just want racial divisions to siute you're own agenda, grow up.

Who wants 'racial divisions' and 'thrives on violence', HertsEDL?
Looking up at the previous comments, I'm not getting much of that feeling.
If you appear to be so sensitive, perhaps its no wonder that you are a part of the EDL.
Muslims are not stupid. They do not want a war in England. They are overwhelmingly against Sharia Law in England and a poll on the Guardian today shows that British Muslims are the most patriotic in Europe.
Parenthetically, I commend you for speaking to the mosque's Imam, and hope you continue in this dialogue to find a better and more mature way to vent your frustrations rather than joining the racist and anti-Muslim EDL.

@superstudent. I find your whole reply condecending and patronising. Muslims don't want a war in England? That's just your single opinion. Overwhelmingly against sharia? Not true and you know it, we're not stupid either. England has over 20 secret sharia courts that you try to hide from the English. Just today, the media have reported that sharia has been secretly written into our budget from pressure from muslims. You can't lie to the British people anymore and get away with it. Sharia is a disgusting, oppressive and violent law that belongs in the dark ages and if so many muslims are against it, why have you not been publicaly demonstrating angainst the likes of Choudary and sharia? I'll tell you why, because to be a muslim you have to submit to your god and sharia. Fact! why do 86% of muslims say they're muslim first and British second? That is discusting! Does that sound like intergration? No. Racist EDL? Despite the fact we have Black, Asian and Gay members, we're still racist and why do you still say that? to try and gain sympathy from the easily fooled members of society. How easy it is to call somone that. well, i'm sorry, that word doesn't scare me. It was only invented to try and scare people into shutting up. Guess what? we're not shutting up and we get bigger every day. And for the record, the whole world is waking up to the your threats of sharia, so don't try and pretend to people that this is just a British problem. Everybody can see through your lies, so you can scream 'racist' as loud as you like ok. When muslims publicaly march against Choudary and Sharia, we'll belive you. untill then, we don't. One other thing about you so-called religion of peace, what's the punishment for leaving Islam? Tell the people, if you dare. The punishment is death people. Google Sharia people, that is what we're fighting aginst.

Dear HertsEDL
You are producing misinformation - I hope i can explain a few of issues you raise.
The function of the shariah courts which you mention are to settle matters through arbitration. The Jewish community also try to resolve disputes through arbitration, infact this would be a better way to do it for everyone and many do so. When matters do not settle through arbitration then they are taken in courts (real courts) through the legal systems - a more expensive and difficult route that does not always satisfy the cultural sensitivities. A barrister by the name of Ahmad Thompson would be a suitable person to find out more on this matter.

Even in an Islamic state back in history, they had seperate rights for the christian citizens, they also had women's right long before it was recognised in England. I dispute your claim that shariah is backward and for the dark ages - you are prejudiced and not looking at things objectively.

You should understand the vast majority of muslims across the world or even in UK are not seeking to establish shariah in UK. Muslims do want to live by shariah and they want it implemented in the muslim countries - they do not want fake democracy to be established. You should also understand it is UK that goes across the world to prevent Muslims from living by shariah when they actually desire to live by shariah. Look at the support for oppressive regimes such as that of Egypt, Jordan, Uzbekistan, etc. British interest against the interest of the population of the third world country is often satisfied by supporting /creating oppressive regimes - e.g. cheap oil.

In various countries across the world including US, there exists capital punishment particularly for treason. In Islam there exists punishments system and within this capital punishment exists. In Islam, it is forbidden to force anyone to become Muslim but under islamic law the punishment for someone who leaves Islam after accepting to be muslim is capital punishment. This capital punishment are applied within the boundaries of the islamic state not in other nation states. As muslims we do not hide this information however i know some muslims leaders do avoid answering or try to explain away in a way that muslims across the world would not agree to, and this is wrong.

Your point about 86% muslims saying they are muslims first and British second. I am pleased to hear this, there would not be much point in a belief in God if you put Britain before God. This does not however make a person a bad citizen and so you are wrong for your prejudism.

Dear "akthar"

First of all, i would like to congratulate you on converting 5 more people to the EDLs cause in just one post, very impressive.

Shariah and Jewish courts have no place in this country, the way in which you talk of them as a normal thing makes me sick, this is Britain, we have our law system, you came here, this is now your system, can you imagine the outrage if we went to a middle eastern country and started opening our own courts and law system! what is wrong with you!
Just because you think it might be a better way gives you no right what so ever to just go ahead with it! I dont like muslim women walking around with covered faces, shall i start acting like you? should i just take it upon myself to correct this wrong? No?

"cultural sensitivities"?! i cant believe how angry you have made me, again, this is BRITAIN, our culture is British, why the hell should we be chopping and changing our legal system to make sure you don't get offended? leave if you don't like it.

Do these women's rights include women who get buried up to their necks and have stones thrown at their faces until they are dead, all because they were raped? What a joke your post is. Tell me how that is not from the "stone" ages, excuse the pun. That is completely backwards. This is a Christian country, there is no place for it here, deal with it.

I love how you justify killing someone for wanting to change religion, do you not see how messed up that is? Don't use the US as an example, capital punishment no longer exists in THIS country.

Just as amusing is your attempt to excuse the 86% of muslims fact.

As i have already stated this is a Christian country, like it or not, thats the way it is, who do you think you are? Why are you so special you get to change everything because you dont like it? I cant wait for non muslim Brits to start acting like you do, you wont last 2 seconds.

I am British first, as you should be, not blindly following some made up sky fairy, if it was up to me religion would be banned, unfortunately we live in a "fake democracy"which entitles people to believe and say what they like. Get a grip, if you want shariah, go to a country that follows it, easy as that, we dont!

You are wrong in your pathetic attempts to justify yourself.

Dear 'thedarkstate'.
The fact that this country allows others to practise their religion, whether that is jews, or non jews - is part of the law. If you don't agree with that, then that's your problem, but that has been voted by the people through the democratic process - something which the country stands for.
Muslim women have the same right to cover their faces in this country, just as other women have the right to wear bikinis at the beach. This is what the country allows legally to the people, and there is no dispute about this.
What you're saying about stoning a woman whose been raped, that has no basis in Islamic law. Infact, the rapist is punished to death, and the woman is treated as a victim, who is cared for and protected.
About you loving your culture and following it, that is your choice. The Imam of the Harrow Mosque was willing to have cooperation with those people so that they could have some common ground, the fact that this never occured shows that it's not just certain Muslims being bigotted alone, but it's a two way thing.

Peace.

You still haven't dared to answer my simple question. What's the punishment (yes, a 'punishment') for leaving the Islamic Faith? (Apostasy)
Death!
http://www.apostates
ofislam.com/
Don't dance around the subject and lie to the people, tell the truth. And woe betide you if you DARE to speak out against islam!
http://i1.tinypic.co
m/nyzlep.jpg
Ah, the religion of peace.... Behead, kill, butcher..

HertsEDL, tell me. Is the USA the 'leader of the world' in all morale standards today? Yeah? Does that allow capital punishment for treason? Yes. Who applies that law? The judge, and leader of the nation.
In Islam, by being Muslim - you're pledging allegiance to the Muslim community as a whole. By abondoning the Muslim community - you've commited treason. The punishment, is the same as the 'world leader' of today i.e. death penalty. Who applies it? The Judge, and leader of the nation.
If you don't condemn the USA, you're not condemning Islam.
Surprise Surprise. :D
IslamReligion dot com
Peace

Dear darkstate,
People from all walks of life use arbitration to settle disputes. You have misunderstood the functions of the shariah courts, they provide the service of settling disputes through arbitration and this does not take the place of the English courts.
Take for example insurance companies, they often negotiate to settle disputes out of courts. In the same way individuals may appoint middle people to settle disputes before considering to go to courts.

I see you are opposed to multi-culturalism and in favour of melting everyone to be like you. And then possibly you will say, one has to be white inorder to join your club.
Racism and prejudism never ends. Your nationalism and patriotism is best described as tribalism - a shallow type of thinking that falls very short of being from an ideological society.


@HertsEDL: Capital punishment is death is it not? see my earlier comment, i have not danced around. again you are providing misinformation?
An objective person would use Muslims and Islamic Text as the source to understand about islam and come to a fair conclusion - They would not go to sites that generate hatred towards islam inorder to learn about Islam - this really is not being truthful, it just generates unrest.

@thedarkstate
to correct your misunderstanding, the 'fake democracies' I mentioned was refering to regimes in the Muslim countries, one such example being Egypt.

"muslim" try re-reading my post, i pointed out thats unfortunatly the way things work here, moron. thank you for your reply akthar

i couldnt resist replying "muslim", wearing a bikini is abit different im afraid. How would you feel if every non muslim male started to walk around in ski masks and balaclavas? No law against it is there? no, thats no the point though is it, use your head ay. And you can go on all you like about the way it should be, i have read in numerous places over the years of the victim being stoned to death, poor comment.

Actually akthar, after re-reading you post, i have lost a bit more respect for you, why do people like you always have to go making out like the person you are having a discussion with is racist just because you dont like their views in general, im black you idiot, i dont care what colour you are or where you are from, its religion i dont like, all it causes is war, conflict and mad people walking around dressed in stupid clothing. You believe in the easter bunny too by any chance?
And funny how you rip into my nationalism as a tribal club, hypocrite, is islam not exactly the same concept? talk about shallow thinking! I pity you, i look forward to the day when muslims in this country push everyone else just that bit too far. Its amazing how every other religion is this country gets on just fine, its just you, so dont try blaming this country, you are the problem, and everyone knows it."is god willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god. Epicurus.

Dear thedarkstate,

Islam is certainly not nationalistic or tribalisitic and completely opposed to it being used to bond a group of people, there are specific hadith on this. So therefore on this I do not consider myself to be a hypocrite, possibly you have misunderstood Islam.

I think that it is not right that you are looking forward to see disharmony in this society. You seem to be wanting to agitate in the community. Are you seeking for ethnic cleansing much like Bosnia?

I dispute with you on religion being the cause of all conflict and oppression, take for example colonialism or even the modern day approach: 'economic colonialism'.

Your last quote is interesting, but then you need to debate it more seriously. I am not the person.
I have come across the following debate: 'can we live better lives without religion'. I have not yet watched it but I expect it to be good. http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=WHmNGyGkF
l8